Elections and signs.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Eagler
crazed nutbags around the world are celebrating their victories in Spain - 1st the bombs then the election

So you've seen news reports of people celebrating the Spain bombing?

[CyranoAH]

Originally posted by Eagler
then why the 180 after the bombs?

Please please do get some insight of Spanish politics before giving such an uninformed opinion.

IF the Popular Party had won, it wouldn't be by a large margin, and there would be a coalition of parties throwing it out of the government.

The main difference now is that the Socialist party won't have to join forces with other parties, searching for alliances with different forces depending on the bills to be voted. Many won't agree with me, but I think that's democracy at its greatest.

Oh, and for your information, the Socialist party already beat the popular party in the last city elections.

Daniel

[straffo]

Originally posted by Eagler
then why the 180 after the bombs?

crazed nutbags around the world are celebrating their victories in Spain - 1st the bombs then the election

the spanish were already at 179° before the elections.

[Nilsen]

Just ignore it cyrano and straffo

[gatt]

Polls showed that more than 90% of spanish ppl was against the war in Iraq. Add the "ETA/Al Qaeda" mess the spanish government did during the very last days before elections.

Is it so difficult to understand what happened then?

[Eagler]

then we are being mis informed here - telling us the conservative gov was up for an easy re-election prior to the train bombing

[Frogm4n]

Originally posted by Eagler
then we are being mis informed here - telling us the conservative gov was up for an easy re-election prior to the train bombing

 
Watching fox news will do that to you eagler.
Most of spain was going to vote them out with or without the terrorist attacks.
Im sure you dont remember the 500k people protesting the iraq war a year ago in madrid.

[Pepe]

Originally posted by CyranoAH
Ok let's see, ETA denies any involvement, 5 detainees which are from Morocco and India, 2 of which had been under surveillance for their links to Al Qaeda...

Yes. It absolutely looks like a terrorist act from ETA. Everything points to that conclusion. Or that's what the ex-government wanted us to believe.

Daniel

Straight facts:

* 2003: 2 ETA members caught while left 2 backpacks with 50Kg. of Explosive in 2 trains otw Madrid - Chamartín.

* 2.003: ETA van intercepted in Cuenca (if my memory suits me well) with 500 Kg. of explosive, ready to blow.

* 2.004: ETA member says that ETA should throw 100 deaths on the table to force the Government to negotiate.


Then, the blasts. An then:

Government says, at the very first: It was ETA action. (So says Ibarreche, head of Basque government, among others). Socialists say that "We must unite and make not use of this as political ammo". I think that was the most likely hypothesis at the time being.

On finding the vans, the government tells it immediately, and says about the arabic tapes and says "It's leaving all the investigation paths open", but they favour the ETA way, which I think it's not lie or manipulation whatsoever. Especially when, at the time being, only an e-mail claimed for the responsibility. Socialists start to shout the government "liar, liar".

Aznar goes into public without making emphasis on ETA being the author.

Our Interior Minister goes into public with each bit of information, as far as I can tell allways saying that they are investigating all possible authors. Each times he appears, Socialists chant "liar, liar".

He informs immediately when 5 suspects are detained. At that moment, he admits that chances are on Al-Qaeda action. "liar, liar" again.

On Saturday, the Popular candidate denounces an illegal demonstration, in front of their address, calling them "liars" and shouting about Irak war. 5 minutes after this, Rubalcaba (Socialist) appears on TV saying that "Spain deserves a Government that do not lie"


¿Where the government manipulate?  ¿Where did they lie?

I just can't see it. Very much on the other side, If I was to denounce manipulation, the charge would be on Socialists and Communists.

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
Watching fox news will do that to you eagler.
Most of spain was going to vote them out with or without the terrorist attacks.
Im sure you dont remember the 500k people protesting the iraq war a year ago in madrid.

I don't know what is the news channel you see, but you are equally (at least) wrong.

Polls were only dubious about absolute majority, not the victory itself.

As for the protests, bear in mind that Socialists and Communists lost the councils' elections immediately after that.

I don't think you know what was going to do "Most of Spain".

Regards,

[straffo]

Pepe you would be kind enought to report to your local Soviet and make your auto-critic.


Long life to Zapatero your new great socialist leader !


et viva Zapata ! (hu ? )

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by GScholz
To me it seems like the Spanish people is taking back their government from a party that ruled and lied like a dictatorship. Understandable ... it's only 30 years since they were ruled by a fascist dictator.

It's the US who are "giving in to the terrorists". It's the US who are allowing the terrorists to change their way of life, not the Spaniards.

What a load of bull. Hell yes lets just pretend that there arent people plotting to kill hundreds or thousands of us... Pretend its not a problem, appease them, hopefully they will go away, dissapear and leave us alone.

You guys are actually CHEERING that fact that a free nation capitualted to a bunch of terrorists after they murdered 200 innocent people....

You know, some have said that the train bombings were Spain's 9/11, but now it's becoming incresingly clear that this is not the case. The 3/11 train bombings are not Spain's 9/11, they are Spain's Munich Conference, and that is the real tragedy...

Peace in our Time!!!

[Pepe]

GSholtz:

You seem to need urgent lessons both on recent and contemporanean spanish history.

[Boroda]

Well, I think I have to tell you how I went to watch the fire...

My friend picked me up and drove to Leninsky ave. to cross the river at the Big Stone bridge and come closer to Manezh (Riding ring). The traffic was blocked at the Garden Ring, so we crossed the river at Crimean bridge and turned right on Kropotkin str. Near the Christ the Saviour cathederal the traffic was redirected to Ostozhenka or Boulevard ring. Fortunately, the right turn on Frunze str. was not blocked, so we passed Defence ministry and parked a car on Big Stone bridge, 5min on foot from Manezh. Half of the centre was blocked...

The fire was visible from several kilometers. The crowd at the stairs of Lenin's library was not as big as I expected. The Borovitskaya underground station was not closed as I expected. The corner of Library and New Arbat (Kalinin ave.) was blocked by militia. We went to the militia line and watched the firemen work from ~300m.

There were many people with cameras, but they were far from militia line. One girl with an SLR came close and tried to "shoot", but militia major standing near started to shout "no photographing allowed!" and tried to seize her... A guy standing nearby blocked his way and let the girl run away. Major and two sergeants seized him and pressed against the floor for some time, but then let him go... I think it was just that aged major's reflex - not to let anyone photograph. The girl didn't have a chance to make any good pictures - it was too dark and too far for her built-in flash. There were people with profesional cameras on tripods up the Library staircase, but militia didn't interfere.

When we arrived - the roof already collapsed and the whole huge building was burning inside. Now only stone walls remain, interior is burnt out completely.

Exaxtly as I thought - the plan of "reconstruction" appeared before the building stopped burning. They are going to build 2 underground floors and make a new fashionable exhibition hall there. Bloody crooks, I bet some arse from Moscow city government set it on fire to steal money on reconstruction.

I hope everyone knows how a Stoly vodka label looks like. The building on it is a Moskva hotel, a huge building near Kremlin. Now, imagine, Moscow government says it is falling apart (!!! It was built in 1935 and could withstand a direct nuclear hit!), so they disassemble it to build another hotel there, looking exactly like the old one! What a gang of thieves! Then they disassemble Voentorg (military department store) built in 1910 - just to build another looking exactly the same! And now they are celebrating the Manezh fire as another source of money! @#$#@%^^!! They had plans to rebuild ALL the houses on Gorky street (Tverskaya) - just because they have wooden floors and are dangerous! Imagine some government arse declaring all houses on Broadway in NYC dangerous and ordering them all destroyed and rebuilt!...

As for the elections - I came home at 01:00 and turned on the TV. The news were interrupted to show Putin's press conference... They didn't tell anything about situation in Ajaria - they showed the stupid press-conference where comrade president repeated same slogans as usuall... The war is about to start and Russia will probably be involved - and it means nothing compared to stupid slogans...

Sign of time: next day "liberal" radio "Echo of Moscow" dad a fire in Manezh as the first news, elections - only as second.

[Wlfgng]

thanks for the update Boroda.. damned interesting for sure.

My brother and his family are all living in Russia for the next few years... definately intersting.

[Momus--]

Gruntard talking out of his anus again I see

Iraq != war on terror, no matter how hard you try and spin it. No-one believes it except you and your armchair bound ilk.

PSOE !=  lefty peacenik appeasers - check their record against ETA in the 1980's, in fact check their entire 1980's record, they were pro-market, pro-USA, pro-NATO, about as socialist as the British Labour Party is now.