Author Topic: Buff Gunner accuracy and lethality (Read 803 times)

Easyscor · « **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2004, 09:01:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Karnak
Actually they were worse before the formation bacuase there was no cutout when firing through the tail or wing. When they added the formation they also added the cutout on the guns. In addition to that the guns from the two aircraft you are not sitting in almost always miss.

Right, and there is no way with formations to fire all the guns on a single buff the way you could in 1.09. It's either one gun position only or all positions from all buffs wasting most of your ammo.

Guys who know what they are doing will take out two of your buffs in a single pass. The damage isn't supposed to transfer but it sure looks like it still does.

LePaul · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2004, 09:00:58 AM »

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Originally posted by Easyscor
Right, and there is no way with formations to fire all the guns on a single buff the way you could in 1.09. It's either one gun position only or all positions from all buffs wasting most of your ammo.

Guys who know what they are doing will take out two of your buffs in a single pass. The damage isn't supposed to transfer but it sure looks like it still does.

Agreed, that still seems to happen to me, too.

I'll happily take my solo bombers and uber sight back...rather than the version we have now with 3x the guns firing back at interceptors and synching the sites. I have no real problem with bomb site synching now but I know its turned a lot of armchair bomber guys away...or into those suicide Lanc morons everyone complains about.

It'll only get worse of AI gunnery (Otto) is added to the bombers.

But that's just me. I found it more sporting with one bomber. With the 3-ship formation, I can do vastly more damage, sink fleets etc.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2004, 02:55:53 PM »

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Originally posted by LePaul
You guys are being wise.

B26 can't survive missing any wing parts.

Check my score Vs. buffs (2bull)

My top two victims are lancasters and B17's

mars01 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:07:21 PM »

I hit buffs any time I see em and as most have said, if you come in fast the buffs don't have a chance, except for the guys mentioned 999000, BGB, et-al they are deadly.

All in all I think its the gun positions that get knoced out too easily in the buffs that sucks.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:11:46 PM »

If buff guns are so leathal because of bullet travel and aircraft speed, how come head-on passes with .50 aren't totally annihilating the target (merge speed is double.)

Nope, they're a concession. Readily admitted by HT, too.

The gun positions are way too tough as they are. It's practically impossible to kill gunners with anything but direct cannon shots. In reality gunners were fairly easy to disable, planes had paper walls and .50 packs a nice punch anti-personnel.

Kweassa · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:14:28 PM »

Maybe there can be some method to reduce the accuracy of the guns slaved to the gamer's gunner?

You guys say the gunfire from the drones are nothing but wasting ammo, but frankly, on the receiving end, it's sheer terror.

I can try all the fancy suggested methods of taking down buffs safely, and it usually works good. However, just one volley of pings and usually my wing snaps off. Plane catches fire. Engine dies. V-stab's knocked.. etc etc...

If the accuracy of the slaved guns were altered, and people actually have a chance to stay inside 1.0d without being worried of the one unfortunate volley of bullets that almost certainly kills your plane instantly, then I'd be happy to see the buffs more beefed up in structural integrity.

mars01 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:37:13 PM »

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The gun positions are way too tough as they are. It's practically impossible to kill gunners with anything but direct cannon shots.

I disagree, whenever I join a bomber say a B17 it only takes a few pings and usually the Top turrent and Tail are lost. Maybe it's just me, but seems to happen alot.

dedalos · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:45:47 PM »

I think it comes down to pilot skill. If I am in a 17, feel free to come within d200. Nothing will happen to you. If its one of the guys that know how to use those guns, you will be dead before you enter D1K.

I can take down buffs with ease - too easy sometimes. However if the pilot is 999, tatertot, or ??MAW (i think), I would be lucky to get one before I die.

Bottom line is that even if we think those guns are overmodeld, they cannot hurt you if the pilot does not know how to use them.

Batz · « **Reply #23 on:** March 16, 2004, 05:55:04 PM »

The point of this thread isn't about "how do you kill buffs". Everyone knows how to do that. The original poster states "bomber guns are BS".

They are, regardless of how easy you think they are to kill or how easy you get killed while in one. Kills out to 1k and longer are BS compared to rl. You may agree with the game play concessions but that has no relation to whether they are accurately modeled or not.

You want to see killer buff guns attack a Pe2 in FB... Ouch.

Part of the reason buff formations are easy kills is they are so close. This also helps with their defensive fire but makes adjusting fire easy for the attacker.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 16, 2004, 06:35:59 PM »

I don't know much about the guns, but did all of them have those little HUD aiming sights?

For those that don't, I think the problem could be solved by **NOT** tieing the head movement to the gun movement. It would have to be tied to the moust movement, So you actually have to follow it, possible move your head around.

tatertot · « **Reply #25 on:** March 16, 2004, 08:59:14 PM »

buff killers i agree sometimes it may seem guns are over modeled but isnt everything in ah a little maybe.guys who attack from 2 or 10 oclock do have the advantage in real life would you attack 3 17s from the 6 i think not! seems to me guys with alt aND speed useualy win in attacks on myself.as for 1.2 hits not sure why we can hit you that far but as a buff dweeb (ill say it before someone else does ) bifferent guns use different anglesill explain 17s i lead alot kis i aim high let bullets drop with a arch.kinda like eash fighter has a querk so does a buff. as far as formations i wouldnt mind the old way myself 1 buff verses 8 cons !!!! who would win =]

dedalos · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2004, 08:47:47 AM »

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Originally posted by tatertot
buff killers i agree sometimes it may seem guns are over modeled but isnt everything in ah a little maybe.guys who attack from 2 or 10 oclock do have the advantage in real life would you attack 3 17s from the 6 i think not! seems to me guys with alt aND speed useualy win in attacks on myself.as for 1.2 hits not sure why we can hit you that far but as a buff dweeb (ill say it before someone else does ) bifferent guns use different anglesill explain 17s i lead alot kis i aim high let bullets drop with a arch.kinda like eash fighter has a querk so does a buff. as far as formations i wouldnt mind the old way myself 1 buff verses 8 cons !!!! who would win =]

~~I still think its skill. Guns cn't hurt you if they cannot hit you. Most buffs will never ping you. It is only a hand full of guys that can do that.~~

Kweassa · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2004, 01:48:59 PM »

Unfortunately, it's usually those handful of guys who actually up buffs at alt and know how to bomb things

LePaul · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2004, 08:26:45 AM »

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Originally posted by Kweassa
Unfortunately, it's usually those handful of guys who actually up buffs at alt and know how to bomb things

Yewa but you know, I'll you guys for at least attempting to intercept us...had this been posted in the General Discussion area, they big diversion would have been how buffs ruin the game for the furballers, yada yada...to me, half the fun is *getting* the bombs to target. The other is hitting what ya aim for...and a real perk...making it back!

Also...Kweassa, you mentioned the wasting of ammo...I wish I could select my "volume" of fire, having only one buff fire and not all 3. But you're right, if you are in a buff's range of fire, 3 bombers tossing tracers at you can do some damage fast.

jaxxo · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2004, 10:11:38 AM »

Out of sheer boredom I started flying buffs for fun. Ive gotten pretty good at guns and usually kill all attackers until ammo runs out. Almost every one of them attacks from really bad angles.. (ho or dead 6) Its quite enjoyable to kill 4 or 5 cons and bomb a city to helll. If u think the guns are bs then take a moment to remember aw's guns. 8 or so gunners on 1 plane.. then fly in box formation...I think thats alot tougher. When attacking buffs my angles usually are poor and I still have good success. Take the time to get good at the guns..its a blast....err