Author Topic: Axis Complaints.  (Read 4214 times)

Offline Löwe

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Axis Complaints.
« on: March 15, 2004, 04:46:42 PM »
This thread isnt intended as a swipe at Axis or Allied. I've flown on both sides , probably more on the Axis. This is my opinon, but you have to work harder on the Axis side usually. Not that the Luftwaffe planes are no good. It's just a different discipline than flying Allied.
Now there are a few guys like Shane, and Fester. Who can fly anything with equal success, thats not the case for most of us.

Why so many Axis complaints??

For one thing there is usually more Allied flying than Axis. This isnt always the case, but it's most often the case.

Plane types, are to be considered as well. You figure a usual 1944 ETO your going to have 1 or 2 models of the 109 , and 1 or 2 models of the FW-190.  Even if it's a G2,  or G6 ,109,,,, they are both 109s subject to basically the same weakness, and strengths.Against say P-51s, and P-47s as we had last week, this is a pretty cool setup.

When you throw every available RAF/USAAF fighter available at them your looking at these guys with having ethier the 109, or 190 fighting against........ P-47s, P-38s, P-51s, Spitfires, Tempest, and Hurricanes.

Not throwing in the sub models of each aircraft this is 2 vs 6 basically. What happens is you have a flight of guys in 109s engage a flight of P-51s. Both sides are using their planes attributes to counter the enemys . Next thing you know  a couple of Spits show, up, or Hurricanes, and it completely changes the dynamics of the fight. usually in the Allies favor because of the distinct differences in aircraft they have. Add to the fact that almost every USAAF fighter has a jabo capability, better than any one LW aircraft..................... . Well it can suck being Luftwaffe.

The week after week of fighting superior numbers of both people, and aircraft types , can start to wear guys down. So it's not that out of line that people get surely , and start thinking that there are things like an anti Axis CT staff. Even though it's absurd , the constant effort put into holding onto the chitty end of the stick gets to most people every now and then. Guys like Eagler never complain , they just go on and manage to kill Allies anyway. He's the exception.

Most average pilots like myself , just get burned out. In fact it's not hard for guys to start buying into the anti Axis conspiracey , because all you ever see is a sky full of what seems like unlimited types of allied fighters, against your same ole Gustav , or Wurger.

Storch takes a lot of grief from us at times. He takes it from me as well. His rants seem stupid , and uncalled for. However there is a touch of truth in what he says. It's not  the grand conspirecy he claims. It's the conditions , not the conspirecy. I think he has just gotten fed up, and gone overboard. I think many of us have gotten fed up , and gone overboard in the other direction. By this I mean we now completely refuse to listen to what he's saying with an open mind.

I know one of my best friends ever Jester is going to dissagree with what I am promoting but.......................... ............

I think the answer is limiting the fighter types to 2 or 3 for each setup. I've been luftwaffe and seen B-17s on the far eastern edge of the map escorted by P-51s, and Spitfires. Thats the kind of stuff that wears down Axis squads, and pilots after a while. Spitfires didnt escort from thre UK to Germany historically, but they can in AH. So why give them the chance to do what they couldnt do historically??

Limit the setups to RAF vs LW, USAAF vs LW , VVS, vs LW, USN/USMC vs IJ, or USAAF vs IJ. I know I'm allied , and I may get fragged for this, but some of these setups using 6 or more Allied types against 2 on the Axis is just sending out an invitation for gang rape.

Even if one plane may bring crys of uber , or un-ballanced it's still going to be a hell of a lot more ballanced than having it and 5 other models to fly.

I think the Axis pilots are high caliber enough to handle any setup that doesnt border on the ridiculas. I've read accounts of mixed fights between spits, hurris, against 109s, or 110's. Mixed fights of P-51s, and P-47s, against 109s , and 190s.

Do you ever hear of  fights that consisit of 109, and 190s , against P-38s, P51s, P47s, spits, Hurris, tempest, and the odd A20 furballer anywhere in your history books?

Most Units especially RAF, and Luftwaffe had certain sectors they operated in. So chance of running into more than one or two types of enemy fighters were very rare.

This is just a suggestion, and opinon. Do with it what you want.:aok

Offline gear

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2004, 05:01:04 PM »
I have no problem i die in both realy well:D

Offline Squire

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2004, 05:16:36 PM »
Sorry , I have to disagree. Variety in setups adds spice, it doesnt detract it from it. There will be no "magic" in taking a "2-3" fighters approach.

Look at Finn-Russ? its a great setup, and a great map. Lots of variety there too. Personally I think ETO 1943/44, is a fine set too, lots of stuff there. Most of the best setups have some good variety. I really think thats the CT at its best, a particular time era but inclusive as possible with the proper types.

Past that, and you are really asking for a Duelling Arena.

My 2 cents there.
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Offline Löwe

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2004, 06:14:30 PM »
Yes Warloc, your right  It adds spice. However only for the allied guy. I'm not saying do away with bombers, or GV's. Maybe I'm wrong but isnt the CT supposed to represent small parts or scenarios of the airwar? I don't believe what I'm suggesting is turning it into the dueling arena, anymore than the usual 44/45 scenario with all of  the different allied type planes  turns it into the Main arena.:)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 06:26:29 PM by Löwe »

Offline Arlo

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2004, 06:17:09 PM »
I blame the Germans for concentrating solely on 109 and 190 variants.

Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2004, 07:04:58 PM »
arlo has a logical, but yet reasonable point.
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Offline eskimo2

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Re: Axis Complaints.
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2004, 07:21:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Löwe
Do you ever hear of  fights that consisit of 109, and 190s , against P-38s, P51s, P47s, spits, Hurris, tempest, and the odd A20 furballer anywhere in your history books?


I agree.  I like fights of one or two types per side.  The vast majority of air battles that I have read about consist of one type of fighter VS. one type on the opposition, often with a bomber type being escorted.  Sometimes you read about two types on a side, very rarely more.  It also seemed uncommon to mix allied countries in a battle (at a particular time and airspace - truly mixed together), even U.S. and Britain.  

In the CT, it seems the norm to have a great mix of fighters per side.  I think that this takes away from historical immersion, IMO.

eskimo

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2004, 07:23:15 PM »
While I like variety, I think Löwe has a good point.

For one thing, you've got fans of five or six aircraft ganging up on fans of two.  Just because of that you're going to favor the Allied side over the Axis by encouraging people to join the side with their favorite toy.  Now if you limit it to USAAF vs. LW then maybe that Typhoon fan will fly Fw190s and if it is RAF vs. LW maybe a P-51 fan will take a Bf109 against those Spits.

Now it is, too frequently, "I'll just join the side that has my P-38/P-47/P-51/Spit/Hurri/Tiffe".  That is six kinds of fans right there and then you add in minor rides like the A-20 and Mossie.  Against that you have Bf109 and Fw190 fans with the Bf110 as a minor ride.

Add on top of that the fact that all the US aircraft (save the 2,000lbers on the P-38) are modeled with their ordanance overload and the Axis get a pretty short end of the stick.
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Offline DiabloTX

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2004, 08:42:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
arlo has a logical, but yet reasonable point.



Hey Arlo, you hear that?  You're being reasonable.  Stop it!!!!
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Offline Arlo

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2004, 09:52:41 PM »
Early in the day. Not enough beer. :D

Offline Squire

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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2004, 11:05:23 PM »
There are problems we will never be able to "fix" in the CT, and we shouldn't try. Players have a lot of the blame or credit on their shoulders for making things more interesting...I think there is already too much "social engineering" in the CT.

Get a year, a theater, fill the set, fly it.
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Offline Bear76

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2004, 05:11:50 AM »
Like Lowe, I've flown on the dark side a lot. It is a bit different. Yes, the allies usually have a larger selection of planes, just as they did in real life. I've heard the anti-axis stuff and some will always believe it. To be successful in axis planes, you have to fly smart to be successful. Eskimo and Eagler fly them to the planes strengths.
I think we get used to thinking whether a plane set is fair, instead of what was historic for the time period of the map involved. If I get killed, I don't blame the plane. I blame the pilot, because I probably did something stupid and deserved to get killed. Now if they could just fix the server....
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Offline Oldman731

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2004, 07:36:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
I blame the Germans for concentrating solely on 109 and 190 variants.

Heh heh.  There's a lot of truth in this.  Seems to me that I'm almost always flying Axis in order to even out the numbers (and WHY IS IT that those numbers invariably favor the Allies?).  For me, the frustration isn't caused by too many types of allied planes.  Being realistic, I'm going to get gunned down, no matter what kind of plane set I'm up against.  Instead, I find I get bored by the fact that I'm always flying one of about three different plane types.  Not a thing we can do about that, there just isn't much variety in the axis rides (unless you count having five different 109s, four different 190s and two different Zekes as variety).  It's one of the two prices we pay for an Axis v. Allied arena (the other being that almost any setup will be unbalanced one way or the other).

But I do like Lowe's limited plane set suggestion, for the reasons he and Eskimo cite.  It's just plain more realistic.  I really enjoyed our Japanese v. P-38 setup two weeks ago.  Similarly, last week's European scenario and this week's PAC situation feature(d) limited choices per side, and it worked out very well.

- oldman (but we DO need enough choices per side so that I can still fly the Hurri I and the 202 occasionally)

Offline Squire

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2004, 08:12:45 AM »
You guys might consider actually stepping out of the rarified atmoshpere of arenas once in awhile and flying a Snapshot, CAP, or Sqaud Op event too...the CT isnt the only place that "WW2" stuff is done in AH.

My squad does 4-5 missions per week, only one of them is the CT, the rest are limited life SEA events. Most fun flying in AH, imho. It will also give you a different taste of the a/c and time periods, and tactical challenges involved.

Just saying, the more the merrier, thats all, nobody is "better" that flies them, its just a different experience.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2004, 08:58:22 AM by Squire »
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Offline Squire

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Axis Complaints.
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2004, 08:16:18 AM »
Ta152, Me262, and Me 163 have all seen use in the CT recently, and were before too.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2004, 08:25:43 AM by Squire »
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