Christianity Debunked???

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Originally posted by Eagler
dead

acid and meditation are not the same path

quiet ur mind,control it to see past it - no brain damage or alterations just reining in the wild horses for a short period of time or attempting to as it is too difficult for most

but what am I telling you? you guys know all the answers right?

LOL

They certainly aren't the same path - meditation is the long way round, psychedelics are the express route (10 items or less). The destination is the same: experience of what the religious would class as "the divine", or Brain / consciousness change. Physiologically, the same process is going on - after all, psychedelics wouldn't work at all if they didn't mimic the brain's natural chemistry. That's the whole point of all that  mucking about trying to think of nothing, concentrating on breathing, a fixed image or mantra or not moving at all (depending on your meditation method) - it's a method of altering your brain chemistry to the point where you see things differently. Another faster way is the good old fashionsed 180-220 BPM trance inducing percussion, as favoured by the raver community. So the process is the same and the results are the same, it's merely a question of whether you want to spend a year doing it or 8 hours. Either way to paraphrase Metzner - whether you experience heaven or hell, it is your brain which creates them.
And it's also worth bearing in mind that the "brain damage" caveat can also be applied to eating shellfish or steak, falling over, car exhaust, alcohol and a whole host of other seemingly innocuous everyday activities. Nothing is really safe, in this life.

[AKIron]

There are different forms of meditation. It can be nothing more than a contemplative state where a subject, rather than "nothing", is mulled over. Depending on the object and method of your meditation it can be very stress reducing. To alter your consciousness with psychotropic drugs has hardly the same effect or the same end result. The former can help you to see more clearly and understand a stiutation. The latter may cause you to believe you have seen God but have no real understanding of the chemically induced experience.

Originally posted by -dead-
They certainly aren't the same path - meditation is the long way round, psychedelics are the express route (10 items or less). The destination is the same: experience of what the religious would class as "the divine", or Brain / consciousness change. Physiologically, the same process is going on - after all, psychedelics wouldn't work at all if they didn't mimic the brain's natural chemistry. That's the whole point of all that  mucking about trying to think of nothing, concentrating on breathing, a fixed image or mantra or not moving at all (depending on your meditation method) - it's a method of altering your brain chemistry to the point where you see things differently. Another faster way is the good old fashionsed 180-220 BPM trance inducing percussion, as favoured by the raver community. So the process is the same and the results are the same, it's merely a question of whether you want to spend a year doing it or 8 hours. Either way to paraphrase Metzner - whether you experience heaven or hell, it is your brain which creates them.
And it's also worth bearing in mind that the "brain damage" caveat can also be applied to eating shellfish or steak, falling over, car exhaust, alcohol and a whole host of other seemingly innocuous everyday activities. Nothing is really safe, in this life.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Sixpence
"Lions eating christians, plagues, I love this God fellow, he's so deliciously evil!"

But he's REALLY bad with his money....

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Originally posted by AKIron
There are different forms of meditation. It can be nothing more than a contemplative state where a subject, rather than "nothing", is mulled over. Depending on the object and method of your meditation it can be very stress reducing. To alter your consciousness with psychotropic drugs has hardly the same effect or the same end result. The former can help you to see more clearly and understand a stiutation. The latter may cause you to believe you have seen God but have no real understanding of the chemically induced experience.

Sure enough there are different forms of meditation, and some of it can be soothing but the stated object in this case was to experience "a divine spark inside you, every one of you - through which we are all connected".
And both meditation are psychotropics are valid paths to this experience, the only difference is in speed and scale. It's like laughing (ie using endorphins) or taking painkillers (like morphine or codeine) to ease your pain - both are valid methods, but for convenience and speed, most people feel painkillers are the way to go. Of course that's endorphin and endorphin analogues - so I've digressed - we were discussing serotonin and serotonin analogues.

Besides, I still maintain:
meditation=method of inducing chemical change in the brain (change in serotonin levels).
psychedelics=method of inducing chemical change in your brain (change in serotonin levels - using analogues).
Neither experience is anything more or anything less than a product of the action of chemicals on the brain.
Which is not to say it isn't mysterious and mystical: it is. For it is nothing less than a glimpse of the master who makes the grass green in action.Paying attention to the man behind the curtain, if you will. It's at look at the brain fooling itself. Caveat Emptor: "Deities not included."

Interesting book on the whole thing: Why God Won't Go Away