Napalm

[Halo]

With all the discussion about nukes it seems time to consider whether firebombs including napalm should be added to Aces High.

However, after reading again about napalm, phosphorous, and other incendiary weapons (plenty of material on line), I don't think I have the stomach for firebomb gameplay.

True, incendiaries were a major fact of life in WWII.  So were the nuclear bombs.  I'm no revisionist, but in the interests of gameplay and peace of mind I'm content with an Aces High devoid of nukes and incendiaries.

However, I'd still like to see the B-29, even though without incendiaries and nukes it would bear little relation to the way it was employed the most.  Yet the Lanc was a major firebomber too, used primarily at night, but in Aces High it is mostly a daylight high explosive bomber and quite playable, so maybe the B-29 need not be too stereotyped historically either.

[Overlag]

if cities are made bigger in AH2 they should at least test the idea of firebombs imo.

nukes = NAY!

firebombs = maybe.....

[Drano]

I'd be more interested in parafrags or parademos. Be great for those lo level A-20 missions.

    Drano

[Keiler]

Actually it would be interesting to have Napalm canisters in the CAS role for Jabos against GVs.

[Hyrax81st]

Info on Tallboy from http://home.aol.com/nukeinfo2/

The first use of the 12,000 lb bomb was on the night of June 8-9, 1944...

Info below on the GrandSlam (22,000lb bomb) from same website as Tallboy

"The first live test of a Grand Slam occurred on March 13, 1945. ... In all, 41 Grand Slams were dropped during the war."

Firebombing of Tokyo(Yokohama) from http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0310-01.htm

"...firestorm on March 10, 1945, which killed more than 100,000 civilians and razed nearly half of Tokyo in the final months of World War II.

Atomic bomb deaths (immediate casualties) at Hiroshima and Nagasaki are estimated at the high-end to be 140,000 and 70,000, respectively.

DRESDEN, GERMANY

Info below on Dresden firebombing (phosphorous) from http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/dresden.htm

(modified to different link from another propagandistic link. Of course, this link may be viewed as a USAF propaganda link because it infers that civilian deaths were due to RAF mis-drops on the city proper).

"on 14-15 February 1945....death to probably 25,000 persons and serious injury to probably 30,000 others"


The point of all these quotes is that not only nukes, but incendiary bombing and large bombs were fairly late-war activites. I don't think they should play a major role in any WWII flight game. If only 41 grand slams were dropped in the entire war, what should their perk value be ? Something to finally use all those bomber perks for...

Bombing towns to capture bases seems strange to me already. It just wasn't the most efficient use of military force. I don't know why it's set up that way in HT, frankly. Bombing strats like factories makes a lot more sense - and we know those are civilians working in those plants. However, I don't really care to re-enact civilian slaughter on the scale that these references document.

[Adogg]

not disputing the fact that any firebombing or atomic bombing was a horrendous experience for the victims ... please consider your sources before posting them...sometimes they do you more harm than good.  

Any site that calls Ernst Zundel a "political prisoner" is more wacky than a bus load of Merry Pranksters and shouldn't really be considered a "well balanced" account of anything. (http://www.rense.com) Even if it draws on Vonnegut's personal observations.

Carry on.

[Muddie]

I'd rather have B25s myself.

Mud

[Karnak]

Hyrax81st,

The highest number of dead caused by an air raid was the firebombing of Tokyo with about 120,000 dead.

Dresden's total was, IIRC, about 45,000.

The fact that your source uses the term "genocide" immediately discredits it as that term is used to refer to the systematic and intentional elimination of a particular ethnic group.  Air raids do not count as genocide, regardless of how big a mistake they were.

I mean, I've never heard of anybody refer to the Germans practicing genocide when they bombed the defensless British city of Coventry.  The only places that refer to such events with loaded terms like genocide nearly always completely ignore strikes on non-German cities such as Coventry, Warsaw and Leningrad.  In short, those sources are almost always Nazi appologist sources that use the Allied bombings of German cities to try to balance the attrocity score sheet between WWII Germany and the Allies.

[JB73]

incendaries would be a great addition IMHO. drop a couple hundred (some bombers could carry 1000) over a town and let it burn down. say 5 min of burning on a building would bring the building down.

[Hyrax81st]

My fault for not carefully reading the entirety of the link. What I was really looking for was the DATE of the Dresden bombing to support the contention that firebombings were late(r) war activities...

Point taken.

I changed my original post to a USAF .mil link which quotes a more reasonable (?) casualty rate. British readers may take exception with its inferences however. If there is a better historical link to the "facts", please post it.

[VWE]

I'd rather have B25s myself.

Fly your B-26 at 75% throttle and IMAGINE your in a B-25!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by JB73
incendaries would be a great addition IMHO. drop a couple hundred (some bombers could carry 1000) over a town and let it burn down. say 5 min of burning on a building would bring the building down.

I'd like to see that if they include the thermal updrafts that were caused by the firestorms they created

[Arlo]

Flame throwing tanks. Oh ... add the Sherman.

[Boozer2]

Have you seen the workers in the AH factories? They're SIMS, I say burn em!

[lazs2]

the open topped ground vehicles are invulnerable to bullets so why wouldn't they be invulnerable to napalm?

lazs