To jmccaul, Pyro, and all
You, jmccaul, ask>>"Out of curiosity what are your opinions on the physics model? Not the numbers for the 51 are off etc but more along the lines of shakers comment"
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The nose of the aircraft should NOT pitch down when the flaps are applied. Flaps create increased lift the result of this should be obvious.
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and >>>"P.S on that point I remember reading the nose pitched down (as in aces high) due to airflow over the wings i.e. They are acting like a secondary elevator in the down position which will pitch the nose down as in aces high. Is this incorrect?" <<<<
GOOMBAH's REPLY:
No, this is not correct.The causes and effects are being confused, possibly because those people who have observed the change in pitch attitude following the change in flap setting are not pilots.
Here is the complete sequence of causes and effects in the example for flaps deploying down...
1.The flap comes down.
2.As Shacker stated, the lift of the wing increases and the plane attempts to "Balloon" up in altitude.
3.The EXPERIENCED pilot,anticipating this, and wishing to maintain the same altitude, will feed in forward stick pressure, as required, to pitch the nose down, in order to hold the same altitude; rolling in forward trim as required to reduce or neutralize the forward control pressure.
So you see, while the EVENTUAL result of "flaps down" IS a pitch down of the nose; the flaps only caused that indirectly...
The PILOT not the flaps, pitched the nose down.
If the pilot had not done so, the plane would have increased altitude, and the nose
(I THINK,) would possibly have pitched up if the pilot had been "hands off" of the elevator control and trim, while the flaps deployed.
(I say "I THINK", because it is second nature for pilots to do as described above, so I have no memory of what happens if the anticipatory action is not taken...Indeed, pilots who fly the same type of aircraft regularly,often roll in the correct forward trim in advance of dropping the flaps;and hold opposing (back) control pressure,... relaxing it gradually, as required, as the flaps come down.
The actual impression the pilot has, as flaps are dropped, is that the seat of his pants feels the plane trying to come up beneath him, so he dumps the stick to stop that feeling, which gives him the impression that the tail is flying up as the flaps come down.!
This is POSSIBLY what led to the impression among the uninitiated, that as the flaps come down, the nose drops.
Shacker, an experienced pilot, only knew that the "flaps were acting backward", for the control he had to put in, to maintain his same traffic altitude, was just backwards to what he was accustomed to.
For Pyro, and others refining FMS...
It is reasonable to assume that you know what your market is...Children who go ZOOM ZOOM with their mouths and Uh-Uh-Uh-UH when they shoot-em-up; Ex-combat pilots; or some level of cyber pilot in between.
The above flap example shows how glaring a descrepancy can be to a knowlegeable cyber pilot, for a large group of them have owned and flown several High End simulations with reasonably accurate flight models and correct flight physics.
Aces High is ostensibly a combat flight simulation, where aircraft with varying flight characteristics are pitted against each other.
Small mismatches of FM between planes are just as glaringly incorrect in this type of simulation as they are in the reversed flap example. It can create "Uber" planes where none existed in the real world.
HTC,If you believe that the arcade player is your PERMANENT market, ignore people like Shacker, who are trying to help. If you believe that the permanent market is the cyber pilot, who is attracted to Flight simulations because he truly would like to fly, rather than make noises with his mouth, then it would behoove you to encourage Shacker to continue to contribute (possibly privately, if you fear public disagreement with your arcade players.)
To the arcade player who has confused lengthy checklists with correct flight modelling...that isn't what we are talking about. That sort of thing is another form of eye candy.
What we are talking about is the correct reaction of a flight model to the flight conditions and flight environment.
And sufficient instrumentation to detect what is occuring and sufficient controls to take the proper corrective action.
The programmers can give you option switches which you arcaders can agree to turn off to "dumb down" the simulation when you fly together on line.
This allows the more knowlegeable cyber pilot to fly against his peers in a more intricate game that demands such things as monitoring power settings, staying within the flight envelope, etc.
The two types of "game", while similar, are as different in skill level as checkers and chess. In Aces High, Chess and checker players cannot play against each other...the rules are different.
Checker players do not need or even recognise the nuances that correct flight modelling bring to the game.
They should not try to correct or censure or argue with the Chess players about FM. There is no need, for a simple option switch can determine whether it is "chess or checkers" on that server.
But if Aces High can ONLY BE a checker game, the chess players will certainly not pay a regular fee to play checkers.
Goombah
[This message has been edited by Goombah (edited 12-24-1999).]
