Author Topic: new russian weapon...US shield is useless  (Read 5283 times)

Offline Boroda

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #90 on: April 01, 2004, 12:08:52 PM »
Boost-phase intercept system!?

Is it a science fiction or what?... :rolleyes: I never thought anyone could spend money on researching such things.

Are they serious about deploying boost-phase intercept missiles in the Caspian sea? Who will let them do it?

Offline Scootter

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Re: Re: Re: new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #91 on: April 01, 2004, 12:11:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Well, in the 80s US didn't have any missile shield, and USSR had it's own system according to 1972 treaty - that possibly only made Moscow with it's 10 million population a not-so-good target for a nuclear attack.

With MAD doctrine in action noone had to surrender.



Boroda, first you state  "Dangerous" ICBM with 12 MIRVs was SS-18 "Satan". At least half of it's payload was fake targets and ECM jammers" about 3 pages back. Now you state the US had no missile shield in the 80, why would you waste lifting power to send fake warheads and ECM jammers if we had no CM's to warrent the expense????


One other question Did the USSR not keep secret the MANY failures of the Soviet space program so the missile failures would not reveal the country’s limitations????

Perhaps we are releasing failures to allow you and others not to worry about our SDI program, no that can't be it as then you would never be developing a counter to our program and it would be such a waste, being as it won't work and all.


Sheese guys if the US SDI was such a joke and had no hope of working WHY would they be building a counter?


The proof that it will work (when completed,.. remember aviation had a LOT of crashes in its early days) is the energy being used to defeat it.

Offline Wolfala

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #92 on: April 01, 2004, 12:24:26 PM »
"Boost-phase intercept system!?

Is it a science fiction or what?...  I never thought anyone could spend money on researching such things.

Are they serious about deploying boost-phase intercept missiles in the Caspian sea? Who will let them do it?"


Look at these figures before you make a stupid comment.


FOR THE FULL REPORT GOTO
http://www.aps.org/public_affairs/popa/reports/nmdfull-report.pdf

http://www.aps.org/public_affairs/p...ports/nmd03.cfm

Boost Phase Defense Timeline - PROBLEMS with it.
http://www.aps.org/media/pressreleases/nmdfig2-2.pdf

Potential Impact Sites
http://www.aps.org/media/pressreleases/nmdfig5-3.pdf

Interceptor Basing areas:
http://www.aps.org/media/pressreleases/nmdfig5-10.pdf

Hypothetical Interceptor Models - LOOK AT IT - ESP considering the largest inteceptor is more the double the mass of the LGM-30 or SS-18 just to achieve intercept.
http://www.aps.org/media/pressreleases/nmdfig16-9.pdf
« Last Edit: April 01, 2004, 12:48:52 PM by Wolfala »


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Nilsen

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #93 on: April 01, 2004, 12:48:11 PM »
LOL Iron :D

Offline Wolfala

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #94 on: April 01, 2004, 01:49:14 PM »
In any case it is always easier to develop or modify a weapon to defeat a defence system, and a lot cheaper. This ABM shield of yours will be expensive, inflexible, easily circumvented and ultimately useless. It will be your Maginot line.



Yes, and if you read the concluding remarks, it says PRECISELY that.

"In assessing the feasibility of boost-phase missile defense using hit-to-kill interceptors or the ABL, we attempted to make optimistic assumptions to bound the performance of such
systems. In some cases we made assumptions that appear technically possible but may not be realistic on other grounds. An important example is the assumption in some of our analyses that interceptors could be fired as soon as a target track has been constructed, without allowing additional time for decision or assessment. In other cases we simply examined the performance that would be required to make the system workable, ."without making any judgment about whether such components could realistically be deployed. An example of this kind is our consideration of an interceptor having a flyout velocity 40 percent
higher than an ICBM’s velocity. We emphasize that the choices made in this study were used to obtain upper bounds on performance; their use does not imply that the Study Group endorses these choices as realistic in all cases. Given the results that follow from our assumptions, we conclude that while the boost phase technologies we studied are potentially capable of defending the United States against iquid-propellant ICBMs at certain ranges of interest, at least in the absence of countermeasures, when all factors are considered none of the boost-phase defense concepts studied would be viable for the foreseeable future to defend the nation against even first-generation solid-propellant ICBMs
« Last Edit: April 01, 2004, 01:59:45 PM by Wolfala »


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Siaf__csf

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #95 on: April 01, 2004, 02:39:54 PM »
AkIrons example was right on the mark. How many times you've actually finished Missile Command as the winner?

The game only ends when all the cities are destroyed by the overwhelming attack.

It's quite funny to see all the ranting about the technical superiority weeks after Apaches role had to be changed because their high-tech was useless against guerilla tactics and $50 rpgs.

Sure, you beat Iraqi army in the direct conflict.
-

Did you win?

-

Did anyone win?


I predicted all this before the war even escalated. Most of you laughed.. Supposedly there were WMD's 100% sure in Iraq. Just as sure as the people would welcome the troops and throw sweets and flowers at your face. Just as sure as the conflict would quickly and cleanly be won with smart bombs.. And sure enough, the phrase 'make no mistake' that was repeated all the time in the media now has a totally new meaning.

The joy of the people was apparent in the news footage from the naded vehicle and the charred bodies. The care the natives took in nursing the bodies was heart warmingly generous. Don't you agree?

Too much hollywood.

Offline hawker238

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #96 on: April 01, 2004, 04:31:20 PM »
A swing and a miss by Siaf_csf.

Offline AKIron

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #97 on: April 01, 2004, 07:08:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
AkIrons example was right on the mark. How many times you've actually finished Missile Command as the winner?


Of course if the real deal ever happens we only hafta stop one "wave". I'm not suggesting there will be any winners, We'll most likely all lose in a nuclear war.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Rino

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Re: Re: Re: new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #98 on: April 01, 2004, 10:08:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Well, in the 80s US didn't have any missile shield, and USSR had it's own system according to 1972 treaty - that possibly only made Moscow with it's 10 million population a not-so-good target for a nuclear attack.

With MAD doctrine in action noone had to surrender.


     Wonder if it worked as well as the air defenses?  They seemed
to have a bit of trouble stopping the West German Cessna 172
"stealth bomber" from landing in Red Square.
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline LAWCobra

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #99 on: April 01, 2004, 10:41:55 PM »
Quote
We'll most likely all lose in a nuclear war. [/B]


Very true I hope all sides never forget that to.

Offline Nilsen

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #100 on: April 02, 2004, 01:24:47 AM »
If the US launched all their nukes against russia we would all die...even if the russians didn't shoot back. Same goes for the oposite of course so we are ****ed anyway.

Offline maslo

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #101 on: April 02, 2004, 03:30:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Very true, but Russia no longer has a spy network capable of learning what must be countered. An anti-missile system won't likely be revealed until it is needed.


LOL who told you that russian spy network is uncapable ... lol

Offline mora

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #102 on: April 02, 2004, 08:22:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
If the US launched all their nukes against russia we would all die...even if the russians didn't shoot back. Same goes for the oposite of course so we are ****ed anyway.


Most nukes are free fall bombs for B-52's, so it's very unlikely that the whole arsenal would be used at once, and why would they if no one is shooting back. I doubt that no more than 10% of the whole arsenal of both coutries would be used in any case. Anyway those alone would make the lives of the survivors very miserable.

Offline AKIron

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new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #103 on: April 02, 2004, 08:24:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by maslo
LOL who told you that russian spy network is uncapable ... lol


Boroda did when he said their new weapon has rendered our shield useless. Of course I realize that Boroda probably doesn't have a clue regarding his nation's secrets. Russia no doubt has a spy network but I'm confident it isn't half as effective as when at the height of the USSR.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2004, 08:26:44 AM by AKIron »
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Boroda

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Re: Re: Re: Re: new russian weapon...US shield is useless
« Reply #104 on: April 02, 2004, 11:11:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scootter
Boroda, first you state  "Dangerous" ICBM with 12 MIRVs was SS-18 "Satan". At least half of it's payload was fake targets and ECM jammers" about 3 pages back. Now you state the US had no missile shield in the 80, why would you waste lifting power to send fake warheads and ECM jammers if we had no CM's to warrent the expense????


You know, god helps those who help themselves. Just listen to what AKIron says: someone over the ocean could follow his strange logics and keep ABM systems classified. And now - our missile systems developed in 70s and still on combat duty until maybe 2020 are already prepared for your countermeasures.

Quote
Originally posted by Scootter

One other question Did the USSR not keep secret the MANY failures of the Soviet space program so the missile failures would not reveal the country’s limitations????


Hm. The only secret I know was a Lunar program, but - you could find information about N-1 launcher.

Quote
Originally posted by Scootter

Perhaps we are releasing failures to allow you and others not to worry about our SDI program, no that can't be it as then you would never be developing a counter to our program and it would be such a waste, being as it won't work and all.

Sheese guys if the US SDI was such a joke and had no hope of working WHY would they be building a counter?


Trying to keep up with the US SDI programm in the 80s was one of the "straws" that have broken the spine of the USSR. We tried to keep up with your R&D, while you just declared that you develop it but never tried :)

Quote
Originally posted by Scootter

The proof that it will work (when completed,.. remember aviation had a LOT of crashes in its early days) is the energy being used to defeat it.


I only can say I hope we'll never know if it works or not.