Author Topic: The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN  (Read 611 times)

Offline NUKE

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8599
      • Arizona Greens
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« on: April 02, 2004, 09:35:50 PM »
Isn't it ironic? The USA did more to ensure the UN's weapons inspectors could do their job in Iraq than the UN or any other country did.

Don't you find it a little ironic when people say that the US/Bush wouldn't let the UN inpsectors do their job in Iraq? What country did more to ensure that inspectors could do their job in Iraq than the US?

Isn't it funny that the same people that say the US should have allowed the UN inspectors more time are the very same people that did nothing when the UN inspectors were kicked out? The same people that let Iraq have 12 years to comply?

The fact is that the ONLY reason UN inpsectors were able to go back into Iraq was that the USA, not the UN, but the USA,  put troops in the area and threatened their use if Iraq did not comply. I guess the UN's words were taken as such by Iraq..... simply words.

And people say the US bypassed the UN..... lol..   if anyone bypassed the UN it was Iraq..... and I didn't hear anyone complaining back then.

The fact that it took the US and CREDIBLE threats of force to get Saddam to even think about complying makes the UN look pretty damn ineffective and  irrelevent in the VERY matter they were charged with managing.

What did the UN do to get Saddam to comply with anything?

Finnaly, is it not hillarious that the UN wrote every resolution they could think of to get Iraq to comply with it's obligations and then threated "severe consequnces" if Iraq did not do so in a "last chance" resolution.

The kicker for me is that now every single UN demand is being complied with in Iraq, but this is not good enough for the morons of the world based simply on the fact that they were "lied to by Bush"

One big LOL for all you people that can't see beyond your nose.

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2004, 02:21:13 AM »


NBB

Offline NUKE

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8599
      • Arizona Greens
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2004, 08:17:50 PM »
I thought I would get at least one intelligent rebuttal.

I'm still wondering what exactly the UN did to ensure Iraq complied with all the UN resolutions.

Offline DiabloTX

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9592
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2004, 08:20:23 PM »
How's this for a rebuttal:

Quit posting on here and get back to work on the secret project.


Works for you?

;)
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2004, 10:38:45 PM »
Nuke.
Iraq did comply.
What are you talking about..
did they comply because of the threat of US miltary action..probably...but that shows you what appeasment gets you.

Us troops in the area where never about forcing compliance or security or terrorism or anything else..they where about power  projection and getting ready to invade again.
There is nothing that Iraq could have dont to keep Bush from attacking. Nothing. No evidence of WMD at all. and the US invaded anyway.

As to the resolutions..they were more to appease the US then to preasure Iraq.
So everyone..from Sadam to the Security coucil was trying to Appease the US..and it didnt work..as it never works.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2004, 10:43:24 PM »
There was no requirement for WMD evidence to invade, all that was needed was evidence of non compliance to the resolution ultimatum which was uninamiously voted in by UN...

I do love how you are trying a new USA = NAZIS  angle where poor iraq and the poor UN are pictured as some hopless pacifist optimists trying to appease an evil USA to no avail....

Is saddam chamberlain in your mind, or perhaps daladier? Is the UN the League of nations?

Saddam is not a victim...

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17754
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2004, 10:45:25 PM »
poor ole saddam, should have just left him be ... mean ole US, what were they thinking?

u tell em canada - you world power you ~!
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti FTW3 | Vive Pro | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder Pedals

Offline DiabloTX

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9592
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2004, 09:37:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The invasion of Iraq has shown every dictator around the world that the only protection against US aggression is to have WMD.


Yeah G, that's EXACTLY what Qadaffi thought.  Try again.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline -dead-

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1102
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2004, 09:38:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
There was no requirement for WMD evidence to invade, all that was needed was evidence of non compliance to the resolution ultimatum which was uninamiously voted in by UN...
The requirement for any UN sanctioned invasion is a resolution sanctioning said invasion to be passed by the UN Security council. With no such sanction for the Invasion of Iraq, you can't use the UN as justification. You'll have to look elsewhere for the casus belli: the UN dog won't hunt.
Bellyache all you like about the UN - right or wrong, it did not sanction the invasion at all.

The best you can get off the UN is 1441's provision of "serious consequences" a threat tempered with the reaffirmation of "the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States".

Both the US and UK ambassadors to the UN stressed that these "serious consequences" were not an automatic validation of an invasion:
"As we have said on numerous occasions to Council members, this Resolution contains no “hidden triggers” and no “automaticity” with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA, or a member state, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12. " - Ambassador John Negroponte of the US.
"We heard loud and clear during the negotiations the concerns about “automaticity” and “hidden triggers” – the concern that on a decision so crucial we should not rush into military action; that on a decision so crucial any Iraqi violations should be discussed by the Council. Let me be equally clear in response, as a co-sponsor with the United States of the text we have adopted. There is no "automaticity" in this Resolution. If there is a further Iraqi breach of its disarmament obligations, the matter will return to the Council for discussion as required in Operational Paragraph 12." - Ambassador Jeremy Greenstock of the UK

The other veto powers make it equally clear:

The French said this: " in the event the executive president of the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission or the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency reports to the Security Council that Iraq has not complied with its obligations, the Council would meet immediately to assess the seriousness of these violations and draw the consequences. France welcomes the fact that all ambiguity on this point and all element of automaticity have disappeared from the resolution."

The Russians: "At all stages of this work, we were guided by the need to direct the process of a settlement onto a diplomatic and political path and not to allow a military scenario. As a result of intensive negotiations, the resolution just adopted contains no provisions for the automatic use of force. It is important that the resolution’s sponsors today officially confirmed in the Security Council that that is their understanding and that they provided an assurance that the resolution’s objective is the implementation of existing Security Council decisions concerning Iraq through inspections by the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) and by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). That is an objective shared by all members of the Council.
In that connection, it is of fundamental importance that the resolution clearly confirms that all Members of the United Nations respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq and of all other States in the region. It is also confirms the need for full implementation of resolution 1382 (2001), whereby members of the Security Council undertook to seek a comprehensive settlement of the Iraq problem, which assumes the lifting of sanctions. "

The Chinese: "As the co-sponsors pointed out during their statements, the purpose of the resolution is to achieve the disarmament of Iraq through effective inspections. The text no longer includes automaticity for authorizing the use of force. According to the resolution, only upon receipt of a report by UNMOVIC and the IAEA on Iraq’s non-compliance and failure to cooperate fully in the implementation of this resolution shall the Security Council consider the situation and take a position.
We are also pleased to note that at the request of many members, including China, the resolution has now included some important elements, e.g.'reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighboring States,' ”

It's also worth noting that all further Security Council Resolutions on Iraq prior to the invasion (1443, 1447, 1454) reiterate "the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq" but none mention the "serious consequences".
And finally, the US,UK & Spain did draw up this resolution proposal: http://www.un.org/News/dh/iraq/res-iraq-07mar03-en-rev.pdf but it was withdrawn due to lack of support.

And now back to this week's excuse for the invasion of Iraq... I forget - what is this week's excuse?
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2004, 10:06:11 AM »
DiabloTX

he does have a point.

If iraq had nukes and a way to deliver it to his neighbours then the us would never dare to invade. However this would not work if it was "only" bio/chem weapons as Gulf1 showed.

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2004, 10:59:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
DiabloTX

he does have a point.

If iraq had nukes and a way to deliver it to his neighbours then the us would never dare to invade. However this would not work if it was "only" bio/chem weapons as Gulf1 showed.


Though nuclear non-proliferation measures have to be pre-emptive to be most effective, no matter what form they take, that does not neccesarily preclude the use of force. A belligerent state that has exhibited it's willingness to use weapons of a similar nature on a whim would most certainly require pre-emptive measures by force if there's even a hint that they could be developing a nuclear arsenal. And if there proves to be evidence that they HAVE nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them, then the option of a sudden, overwhelming pre-emptive attack on their soil to eliminate the threat is most certainly an option ... just not the prefered of the two.

If you agree that the above is self evident in nature, then perhaps you'd be willing to agree that the better of two options was achieved. Or are you truly convinced that Saddam Hussain actually had no intent of eventually building (and quite likely using) a nuclear weapon within his lifetime?

And that being the case, Saddam, having been given every opportunity to convince the UN that he had no intention of doing such yet behaving in such a manner as to convince the UN inspectors that he, instead, was indeed hiding something from them AND having been given a second chance to comply, And a third. etc. ... played a dangerous game of "bluff the world" and lost.

This, of course, is America's fault.

Offline DiabloTX

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9592
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2004, 10:59:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen10
DiabloTX

he does have a point.

If iraq had nukes and a way to deliver it to his neighbours then the us would never dare to invade. However this would not work if it was "only" bio/chem weapons as Gulf1 showed.


And I had a point to.  Not "every" dictator thought what G said.  Qaddafy decided it wasn't worth the effort after seeing the results of Iraq now did he?
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2004, 11:17:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
And I had a point to.  Not "every" dictator thought what G said.  Qaddafy decided it wasn't worth the effort after seeing the results of Iraq now did he?


That's probably not the whole truth.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/libya/wwwh31225.htm

http://www.payvand.com/news/03/dec/1168.html

http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/indyk/20040309.htm
sand

Offline DiabloTX

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9592
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2004, 11:21:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
That's probably not the whole truth.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/libya/wwwh31225.htm

http://www.payvand.com/news/03/dec/1168.html

http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/indyk/20040309.htm


As you libs like to point out, nothing ever is the whole truth.  Like everything else, common sense prevails.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The U.S. ensured inspectors came back to Iraq, not the UN
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2004, 11:27:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
As you libs like to point out, nothing ever is the whole truth.  Like everything else, common sense prevails.


As we also like pointing out, nothing is ever simply black or white.
sand