Author Topic: Soldier's Letter To John Kerry  (Read 1618 times)

Offline crowMAW

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2004, 01:10:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
People who ignorantly accept his label as an honorable soldier and will vote for him based solely on that belief need to be educated.

Pork...you seem to be the one in need of education about Kerry's war record.

First, Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam in one of the most dangerous jobs...Adm Elmo Zumwalt, who commanded the swift boats, calculated that 75% of the men under his command were wounded or killed in action.  Kerry had originally completed his service from the safety of a destroyer, but volunteered for a second tour as a swift boat skipper.

(this is summarized from Snopes)

On Feb. 28, 1969, Kerry's boat received word that a swift boat was being ambushed. As Kerry raced to the scene, his boat became another target, as a Viet Cong B-40 rocket blast shattered a window. Kerry could have followed protocol and ordered his crew to hit the enemy and run. But the skipper had a more aggressive reaction in mind. Beach the boat, Kerry ordered, and the craft's bow was quickly rammed upon the shoreline. Out of the bush appeared a teenager in a loin cloth, clutching a grenade launcher.

An enemy was just feet away, holding a weapon with enough firepower to blow up the boat. Kerry's forward gunner, Tommy Belodeau, shot and clipped the Viet Cong in the leg. Then Belodeau's gun jammed, according to other crewmates (Belodeau died in 1997). Michael Medeiros tried to fire at the Viet Cong, but he couldn't get a shot off. Fred Short in the twin .50 was unable to tilt his guns down far enough to aim at the enemy on low river bank.

While wounded in the leg, the VC was able to pick up his grenade launcher and run.  Presumably to re-position for firing as he was too close to the boat to escape injury or death had he fired when the boat beached on top of his position.

As the forward .50 was jammed and the twin .50s were unable to get a bead, Kerry charged after the VC to prevent him from getting into a position behind the cover of a hooch where he could safely fire his weapon, which would have destroyed his boat and likely killed his men.

Fred Short was the twin .50 gunner...he recounts: "I laid in fire with the twin .50s, and he got behind a hooch. I laid 50 rounds in there, and Mr. Kerry went in. Rounds were coming everywhere. We were getting fire from both sides of the river. It was a canal. We were receiving fire from the opposite bank, also, and there was no way I could bring my guns to bear on that.  That was a him-or-us thing, that was a loaded weapon with a shape charge on it . . . It could pierce a tank. I wouldn't have been here talking to you. I probably prayed more up that creek than a Southern Baptist church does in a month."

As far as his wounds and Purple Hearts are concerned...The first was from shrapnel that hit his arm while he was engaged in a firefight with VC.  He was in a Boston Whaler illuminating VC who were smuggling supplies across the river at night.  While the flares would show the enemy for directed fire, it also gave away Karry's exposed position and his Whaler came under intense fire.  The second Purple Heart was earned when a RPG round exploded next to his boat while exiting an area so hot that it had forced away chopper gunships assigned to escort the Swift boats to safety.  He was hit in the leg by shrapnel.

His third Purple Heart was earned in the same action that won him a Bronze Star (from the citation):

Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Pork, you are correct that he didn't miss much time.  But it seems to me that the letter derides Kerry for the exact same attributes that the writers finds admirable...he was wounded but returned to battle despite the wound!

Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
He is a lying, two faced socialist and not much he says can be trusted as the truth.


Uh...and Bush can be trusted as truthful...yeah...right.  BTW...where are those WMD again?

Quote
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
I just said that compared to the guys he was fighting alongside, he's no hero.

Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
only thing is, he seems to have made a big mistake, since he is not a hero of any sort.

Please...did you read the actions that won him a Bronze Star?  Seems to me that anyone that puts themselves directly in harms way to save the life of another is a hero...his wounds, regardless of how major or minor, are indications of how great the risk he took to protect the men of the other swift boats and his man overboard.

The two of you should be ashamed of yourselves.  I can think of no more un-American act, other than burning the US flag, that compares with belittling a war veteran who served with the level of distinction that Kerry has done for the protection of our country.

Offline hawker238

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2004, 01:17:32 PM »
Has he ever directly said "I am a war hero,"?

Offline Dowding

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2004, 01:22:31 PM »
Your whole position is that Kerry didn't bleed enough to warrant any decoration or deserve the accolade of 'War Hero' - an accolade he has never claimed.

Did you serve in Vietnam, Nuke? Were you wounded at any point? I suspect not on both counts.
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Offline NUKE

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2004, 01:31:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Your whole position is that Kerry didn't bleed enough to warrant any decoration or deserve the accolade of 'War Hero' - an accolade he has never claimed.

Did you serve in Vietnam, Nuke? Were you wounded at any point? I suspect not on both counts.


that has never been my position Dowding, as I explained to Nash when he had asked me what my issue was.

And it's Kerry's supporters constantly calling him  a war hero and bring the issue up.

And me not having been to Vietnam has nothing to do with the issue.

Offline hawker238

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2004, 01:47:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
And it's Kerry's supporters constantly calling him  a war hero and bring the issue up.



Offline straffo

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2004, 01:55:09 PM »
Nuke according to what Cro as posted I don't see any reason to not calling Kerry a hero.

But to please you I won't do that.

My problem now ,how was it possible to give there hero label to pvt Lynch in regard to the non-here Kerry is ?.


My question to you will be what is a hero in America ?

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2004, 02:47:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
Pork...you seem to be the one in need of education about Kerry's war record.

First, Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam in one of the most dangerous jobs...Adm Elmo Zumwalt, who commanded the swift boats, calculated that 75% of the men under his command were wounded or killed in action.  Kerry had originally completed his service from the safety of a destroyer, but volunteered for a second tour as a swift boat skipper.

(this is summarized from Snopes)

On Feb. 28, 1969, Kerry's boat received word that a swift boat was being ambushed. As Kerry raced to the scene, his boat became another target, as a Viet Cong B-40 rocket blast shattered a window. Kerry could have followed protocol and ordered his crew to hit the enemy and run. But the skipper had a more aggressive reaction in mind. Beach the boat, Kerry ordered, and the craft's bow was quickly rammed upon the shoreline. Out of the bush appeared a teenager in a loin cloth, clutching a grenade launcher.

An enemy was just feet away, holding a weapon with enough firepower to blow up the boat. Kerry's forward gunner, Tommy Belodeau, shot and clipped the Viet Cong in the leg. Then Belodeau's gun jammed, according to other crewmates (Belodeau died in 1997). Michael Medeiros tried to fire at the Viet Cong, but he couldn't get a shot off. Fred Short in the twin .50 was unable to tilt his guns down far enough to aim at the enemy on low river bank.

While wounded in the leg, the VC was able to pick up his grenade launcher and run.  Presumably to re-position for firing as he was too close to the boat to escape injury or death had he fired when the boat beached on top of his position.

As the forward .50 was jammed and the twin .50s were unable to get a bead, Kerry charged after the VC to prevent him from getting into a position behind the cover of a hooch where he could safely fire his weapon, which would have destroyed his boat and likely killed his men.

Fred Short was the twin .50 gunner...he recounts: "I laid in fire with the twin .50s, and he got behind a hooch. I laid 50 rounds in there, and Mr. Kerry went in. Rounds were coming everywhere. We were getting fire from both sides of the river. It was a canal. We were receiving fire from the opposite bank, also, and there was no way I could bring my guns to bear on that.  That was a him-or-us thing, that was a loaded weapon with a shape charge on it . . . It could pierce a tank. I wouldn't have been here talking to you. I probably prayed more up that creek than a Southern Baptist church does in a month."

As far as his wounds and Purple Hearts are concerned...The first was from shrapnel that hit his arm while he was engaged in a firefight with VC.  He was in a Boston Whaler illuminating VC who were smuggling supplies across the river at night.  While the flares would show the enemy for directed fire, it also gave away Karry's exposed position and his Whaler came under intense fire.  The second Purple Heart was earned when a RPG round exploded next to his boat while exiting an area so hot that it had forced away chopper gunships assigned to escort the Swift boats to safety.  He was hit in the leg by shrapnel.

His third Purple Heart was earned in the same action that won him a Bronze Star (from the citation):

Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Pork, you are correct that he didn't miss much time.  But it seems to me that the letter derides Kerry for the exact same attributes that the writers finds admirable...he was wounded but returned to battle despite the wound!

 

Uh...and Bush can be trusted as truthful...yeah...right.  BTW...where are those WMD again?

 
 
Please...did you read the actions that won him a Bronze Star?  Seems to me that anyone that puts themselves directly in harms way to save the life of another is a hero...his wounds, regardless of how major or minor, are indications of how great the risk he took to protect the men of the other swift boats and his man overboard.

The two of you should be ashamed of yourselves.  I can think of no more un-American act, other than burning the US flag, that compares with belittling a war veteran who served with the level of distinction that Kerry has done for the protection of our country.


Kerry was very, very lucky - he was probably quite young and rather inexperienced at the time of his contact in Vietnam - he made the right decisions while people were trying to kill him and his men.

War hero is something that's thrown around a little too easily - I doubt if anyone who has experience of active service or more specifically a CIB or equivalent thinks in terms of "war heroes"

He served his country and the men under his command well, little pieces of ribbon mean very little - I think the only reason he's attacked on this board by Republican voters is because Vietnam was a defining moment to America - the decisions people made 40 years ago and how they served are still relevant today - both Bush and Kerry made decisions on what they were going to do when their country needed them.

Kerry is only attacked for his Vietnam record because in comparison Bush is a joke. Both served....but who has more integrity?

Offline Furious

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2004, 03:40:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
...And me not having been to Vietnam has nothing to do with the issue.


Does Bush not having been to Vietnam have anything to do with this issue?

Interesting.  Slam one american's war record, while extolling the virtues of another guy who simply didn't show up.

Why?

Partisanship.  My team vs. yours.  Truly a gay way to select our leaders.

Offline NUKE

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2004, 04:36:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Does Bush not having been to Vietnam have anything to do with this issue?

Interesting.  Slam one american's war record, while extolling the virtues of another guy who simply didn't show up.

Why?

Partisanship.  My team vs. yours.  Truly a gay way to select our leaders.


Interesting indeed, since I haven't "slammed" Kerry's war record and I never said Kerry didn't deserve his metals.

His purple hearts are what he used to get rotated out of combat even though he was not injured or unable to perform his duties.

Someone said Kerry volunteered for one of the most dangerous jobs ? Well the fact is Kerry's ( the Swift boats)  mission changed AFTER he got over there. Kerry went from having one of the safest jobs  to one of the most dangerous.....but not by his volunteering for it.

Then once in that job, he used the fact that he had 3 purple hearts to get the hell out of that job.

He came home to the States and lied to the Nation about war attrocities he never witnessed. I have heard interviews from POWs in Vietnam say that Kerrys anti war activities and lies help fuel their captors propoganda and they used it to demoralize the prisoners. Its fine that Kerry didn't support the war, but he made terrible judgments when his fellow soldiers where still over there fighting it.

Kerry went on to become a leader in a group that contemplated killing US congressmen who were not in favor of pulling out of Vietnam. Kerry attended the meeting in which the vote took place to assinate members of congress. The FBI has files on Kerry that show him to be present, which he denied. Kerry could be brought up on charges for conspiracy to commit murder. Even though Kerry voted "nay" he did not alert authorities.....he instead left the group and kept his mouth shut.

I have a problem with Kerry's moral judgment, as he lacks any.

I never have said anything in support of Bush that I can ever recall, but since you asked,  I feel he is a good leader .

So I will even apologize and say that Kerry did his duty in Vienam and performed admirally under fire. and my hats off to Kerry for that. He served his country, to him for that too.

John McCain is a war hero. Kerry is a guy who did his job, then used his medals to transfer out of combat eight months early. If we allowed everybody to transfer out who had similar injuries, we wouldn't have very many left would we?

Offline Frogm4n

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2004, 05:55:58 PM »
nuke was a cowards during vietnam and fled to canada.

Offline Ping

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Soldier's Letter To John Kerry
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2004, 04:12:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Coolridr
This guy IS an insult to all military members...besides I've said it once and I'll say it again...the dude is too damn ugly to be our president..do you want that face representing the people? He looks like Herman Munster.


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