Author Topic: Wreaking Havoc?  (Read 932 times)

Offline HavocTM

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2004, 10:38:50 PM »
I really wish we could trade the Boston formation for a true A-20 formation.  Twice the payload plus 50s instead of 303s.

That being said, the Bostons are a great little bomber if used correctly.  I know there are better planes in the game, but how embarrassing would it be to get shot down by .303s on the Boston tail gun?

Plus it's grrreat for perks.

Offline Wolfala

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2004, 01:17:02 AM »


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Innominate

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2004, 01:58:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2stony
I too am a fan of the A-20. It has a great bomb load for a medium bomber


Or an amazing bombload for a heavy fighter.......


Give the A-20 it's missing gun position!

Offline gofaster

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Re: Re: Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2004, 08:56:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
[BFor similar challange, try flying the SBD as a fighter for a few sorties. Initial turn is better than all but the Zero. However, it loses E in a hurry and is far too underpowered to regain it quickly. Guns are marginal, but at least as effective as the eight .303s in a Hurricane Mk.I, unless you get very, very close with the Hurri. I've killed B-17s with those two .50 cal. guns, but it's not enough power for effective snap-shooting. You can't run away from anything, so once in a fight, you will either win or lose, but escaping is not going to happen. Take the time to climb out to 8-10k. This will provide you with enough E to engage a lower aircraft with either greater or at least equal speed. Don't blow any opportunities, because once you get slow, you are an easy target for fast movers. Sure the SBD can turn tight, but at low speed the aspect barely changes, leaving you extremely vulnerable to snap shots. [/B]


I've done some airfield defense in SBDs when the FHs have been knocked out.  If you can avoid the vulching fighters and can get out of the central combat area to get alt, the SBD can really surprise heavy fighters coming in.  

The SBD is one tough bird and can take some serious damage.  The dive brake gives it a nice ability to force an overshoot, and twin .50s can take out an airplane if you can concentrate the stream on the target long enough.  The SBD isn't fast by any stretch of the imagination, but it is fightable.

Offline AdmRose

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2004, 10:37:02 PM »
Want havoc? Try the IL-2's 23MM cannons...they've got to be the fastest firing cannons on any plane and then tend to leave quite a mess of anything they hit. Once took down (blew up) a C.205 with a 1/2 second burst from those babies.

Offline Widewing

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2004, 05:17:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2stony
I too am a fan of the A-20. It has a great bomb load for a medium bomber, is fast and I'll challenge anyone to HO me with those six 50s in the nose.

:aok


You can do much more than just a defensive HO air to air with the A-20. You just need to make sure the fuel load is light (less than 50%).

It's rare that I get to play during the morning hours, but I had an opportunity today. I like the lower numbers and the general lack of lemming hordes. Rather than facing 15-20 enemy, I had to deal with 2 or 3, four at worst. In this environment, the A-20G can excel.

I was anxious to undo some of the damage my brother did flying on my account last night. He managed to lose as many aircraft in two hours as I had lost all tour. Although, he did kill 16 for his 12 deaths, pretty good for a raw noob. He lost an La-7 and a pair of 190A-8s trying to turnfight with Nikis and F6Fs... I asked that he not fly only a few types; the A-20 and all perk planes. I wanted to keep accurate numbers on the A-20 this tour. The rest were his to play with.

I flew just two A-20 sorties this morning, but landed 9 kills and two assists. La-7s, P-47s, B-17s and a Tiffie could be counted among those who were quite startled to find a twin-engine bomber beating their brains out. Anyone who underestimates the A-20G does so at their peril.

A typical example is an La-7 driver, who essentially Co-E with me, elected to try the rope-a-dope with me D1.2 behind. Bad idea as the A-20 zoom climbs like crazy. I suppose he was stunned to watch the distance drop to D.7 in a few seconds. I fired and scored well. He fell off on his left wing and the next burst pulverized the Lavochkin. Although he said nothing over channel 1, I'm sure he was baffled at what had just occurred. With experience, he may learn to judge E states better and avoid that situation.

It is quite common for players to execute a lazy loop to avoid the A-20. However, in most instances a Co-E A-20 will simply fly the loop, pull lead and shoot them out of it. Few fighters can pull off a looping reverse as tight as the A-20 can. Players would be far better off to split-s or make a diving reverse to take advantage of the A-20s slow roll rate and relatively low VnE (never exceed speed). You can use the A-20's remarkable dive acceleration against it. Once it zips up to 400 mph, any load over 4 G will break it. This is where you would reverse and gain the advantage of position, when you know the A-20 is groaning under the aero loading and just one mistake from tearing itself apart.

Unless you have a considerable E advantage, avoid situations where the A-20 driver can use the plane's awesome power-on zoom climb and/or super-tight power-off looping reverse to chop you down before you realize what just happened.

You can certainly hold your own fighting in an A-20, but they are not especially difficult to defeat if you:
A) Avoid fighting to the A-20's strengths.
B) Don't underestimate the Havoc's capabilities.
C) Don't run into a really skilled pilot who will get all there is to get from the A-20.

The A-20G can seriously abuse early-war fighters, like Hurricanes, A6M2 Zeros, F4Fs, P-40s and even the 109E and Spitfire Mk.I. This medium bomber is faster at low level, climbs well and is very durable. Later fighters, like 190s, F4Us and Typhoons should avoid trying to dogfight with Co-E A-20s. The Havoc will easily out-turn them.  Better to dive away, extend and return with the advantage of speed and/or altitude. Turn fighters like the SpitV, SpitIX and N1K2 turn better, accelerate and climb faster. However, at 250-300 mph, the A-20 will hang on to them like glue. If the A-20 gets any kind of a shot, you will not likely survive it. Use your better roll rate to create poor angles, then use your turning ability to get behind. If you do not avoid the Havoc immediately, you will be dead as the A-20G is a terrific snap-shooter.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline rod367th

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2004, 06:23:42 PM »
a20 sucks these guys just want you to fly it to get easy kills. I personally would never fly the a20..............:)

Offline Adogg

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...I still want my ventral 50 cal back...
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2004, 09:27:03 AM »
...found another reference to the 50 cal in the rear ventral position (that pig-ugly gunnery blindspot that gets me killed A LOT) It was definately a feature in the A-20G.

Offline gofaster

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2004, 09:57:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Players would be far better off to split-s or make a diving reverse to take advantage of the A-20s slow roll rate and relatively low VnE (never exceed speed). You can use the A-20's remarkable dive acceleration against it. Once it zips up to 400 mph, any load over 4 G will break it.


I break just about as many A-20s as I lose to enemy gunfire.  I haven't learned to control stick loading.  That's why I've switched over to the B-26.  Its slower than the A-20 and I'm less likely to overtax the airframe.  And, if I get tired of flying, I can jump into the tailgun and use the plane as an airborne M-16.

Offline 2stony

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Wreaking Havoc?
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2004, 10:44:23 AM »
I read a unit history of an A-20 group that had been flying in the Pacific for two years. The A-26 Invader was given to them to test in combat and the C.O. of the group came up with 30+ things that needed to be changed before the A-26 was ready for combat. They still wanted to fly their A-20s instead of the A-26s. Havocs drove the Japanese crazy with their low level raids and quick escapes. Most A-20s were long gone by the time the Japanese got their fighters in the air.

:cool: