New p-38 AH2

[technic]

[technic]

[Raptor]

unfortunately I am unable to play AH2 beta's at the moment... hows the p38 handle compared to AH1:D

[Delirium]

At high speed it rolls alot better otherwise its unchanged.

At cruising speed its unchanged.

At low speed it flops around like a fish, as if you were increasing throttle to each engine and the torque was affecting you.

I'm hoping it changes a little before then.

[Ecliptik]

Actually, I've found that low speed handling with flaps, and vertical stall handling, is quite improved over AH1 and will make the 38 even more dangerous.

[Delirium]

Really? Unless something has changed in the last 2 patches I HAVE to disagree.

Besides, how much better can its 'vertical stall handling' be when its one of the few aircraft that can do a hammerhead? Again, I disagree.

Try this... bank on the deck with flaps, you'll swear it has engine torque of a single engine plane but instead pulls to BOTH sides as if you are applying uneven throttle control.

[OLtos]

I completely agree.   Further in the two sources I have on the 38 (Dean, "America's 100,000" and Caiden "Fork Tailed Devil") pilots who flew this plane state quite frankly that it simply did not behave this way.  They state repeatedly that the P-38, because of the net postive effect on stablity caused by the counter rotating propellers / (read gyroscopes) caused the P-38 to simply mush directly outward in high speed high angle of attack stalls in tight turns at any attitude.  The instability of the P-38 oin Aces High is so ahistorical that you wind up with an airplane that has most of it's vices modeled in and only half it's virtues.  If the 38 had all of its virtues people would demand that it be perked.  I have been griping about this issue since AcesHigh was in it's first beta series,  and it is still a major problem in the beta as of beta 18.  

I am downloading beta 25 today, but the programmers notes I have read since beta 11 mention  this aspect of p-38 flight modeling (vortext effect on the p-38) just once.  If they are really only working on the vortes issue then they have only solved half the problem.  The stability of the 38 in high angle of attack scenarios is more a function of gyroscopic forces than of vortex.  Vortex effects give you a net zero effect since the vortexes counter rotate.  Add the gyroscopic forces of those big props and you add stability to the airplanes the faster they spin.  This does not happen in Aces High as of beta 18.

[GScholz]

The P-38 can still stall, and in a turn the wings will not stall at the same time. Left unchecked this will induce a spin. The P-38 is not the UFO you want it to be.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

All I can tell you about the stall characteristics of the P-38 is this. The following P-38 pilots (real pilots who flew it between 1942 and 1945) Stan Richardson Jr., Art Heiden, Ken Lloyd, Bill Capron,and several others, stated this for the record. The P-38 did not snap roll inverted nor enter a death spin unless missing parts of the flight surfaces including control surfaces, or assymetrical power was applied. Period. It may eventually spin out of a tight turn if speed drops too low (it will maintian level straight ahead flight at 75MPH), but even then, it will not exhibit the bizarre characteristics it does here in AH. All that is necessary is to get nose down for a LITTLE speed. It will recover at 10 degrees nose down and just over 100 MPH. It will NOT lock into an unrecoverable spin. It was neither necessary nor desirable to pull the throttles back or shut down the engines. You should only close the throttles or shut down the engines if one is already out.

Stan Richardson Jr. was an advanced P-38 instructor AND a combat pilot. He had as many hours in the P-38 on one engine as most pilots had in it period. He can tell you more about the flight characteristics of the P-38 than just about anyone alive today. Not only have I asked Stan any number of questions, but other pilots who flew the P-38 have told me that if Stan says it is so, you can take it as the gospel regarding the P-38. When guys like Art Heiden say that, it is fact. Don Rheimer said the same thing. Few pilots had more hours in the P-38 than Stan did. Although I do not know him, I hear the same is true of Erv Ethell, father of the late Jeff Ethell. I do know that Erv Ethell had well in excess of 3000 hours in the P-38, and was himself a combat pilot with several victories and an advanced P-38 instructor.

[GScholz]

Still ... The P-38 can still stall, and in a turn the wings will not stall at the same time. Left unchecked this will induce a spin. The P-38 is not the UFO you want it to be.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

No one said that the P-38 would not spin, they said it was difficult to spin, and that the spin model here was WRONG for the P-38. For the famous FINAL time, and I'll not waste further time arguing it, the P-38 WILL NOT ENTER A LOCKED DEATH SPIN LIKE IT DOES IN AH WITHOUT ASSYMETRICAL POWER OR DAMAGE, PERIOD. The spin model is WRONG. Believe what you will.

[Innominate]

How do you get a p38 into an unrecoverable spin?

[Batz]

I was wondering that myself.  Please post a film...

[SunTracker]

The P38 in Aces High II is very strange.  You can stall the plane so that it flies with a 30 to 45 degree nose high attitude.  The plane will fly at about 100mph with its nose high in the air, barely maintaining (or slightly climbing) altitude.

Try it yourself- Take off in a P38, full flaps, pull the nose back after rotation until it stalls.  Pushing forward on the stick wont get the plane out of this very high AoA attitude.  Rolling the plane to the left or right usually works though.

[GScholz]

The engines are holding up the wings. Throttle back to make the nose drop (in the Ta152 you would need to shut the engine off completely in AH1). I have yet to get into an unrecoverable spin in any plane in AH1 or AH2. Seems like our "Captain" here needs to learn some spin recovery techniques.