Bin Laden offers truce to European States

[Arlo]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_

Btw your argument that the Iraq war is simply part of the Gulf War is erroneous - Gulf war had international support in terms of troops and perhaps more importantly money and most importantly UN support.


The Iraq war has no UN support, US is paying all the bills to the tune of $1 billion a week and from what I can see is currently taking all the casualties - I'll dig out the casualty lists if you like am sure they're posted somewhere on the net.

Interesting opinion, even if it's wrong. The U.S. acted on U.N. mandates that were written in response to Iraq failing to comply with previous mandates that were enacted (the initial measures) at the time of cessation of hostilites during Desert Storm. You can't spin away that paper trail. But you can try.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Apart from Britain's 8,000 troops could you give details of the actual numbers of boots and bayonets on the ground that those 26 nations have provided?  If it averages out at a 1000 men per state - ie 26,000 troops I will be very surprised.

When you take into account that the numbers of front line troops to remfs is like 10 or 15 to 1 then it's easy to see why there is a manpower shortage in Iraq.

Why dont we let the US president answer that one shall we...

THE PRESIDENT:
John, my response is, I don't think people ought to demean the contributions of our friends into Iraq. People are sacrificing their lives in Iraq, from different countries. We ought to honor that, and we ought to welcome that. I'm proud of the coalition that is there. This is a -- these are people that have -- the gut leaders have made the decision to put people in harm's way for the good of the world. And we appreciate that sacrifice in America. We appreciate that commitment.

I think -- one of the things you're seeing is more involvement by the United Nations, in terms of the political process. That's helpful. I'd like to get another U.N. Security Council resolution out that will help other nations to decide to participate.

One of the things I've found, John, is that in calling around -- particularly during this week, I spoke to Prime Minister Berlusconi and President Kwasniewski -- there is a resolve by these leaders that is a heartening resolve. Tony Blair is the same way -- he understands, like I understand, that we cannot yield at this point in time; that we must remain steadfast and strong; that it's the intentions of the enemy to shake our will. That's what they want to do -- they want us to leave. And we're not going to leave. We're going to do the job. And a free Iraq is going to be a major blow for terrorism. It will change the world. A free Iraq in the midst of the Middle East is vital to future peace and security.

- - -

The legacy that our troops are going to leave behind is a legacy of lasting importance, as far as I'm concerned. It's a legacy that really is based upon our deep belief that people want to be free and that free societies are peaceful societies.

Some of the debate really center around the fact that people don't believe Iraq can be free; that if you're Muslim, or perhaps brown-skinned, you can't be self-governing and free. I strongly disagree with that. I reject that, because I believe that freedom is the deepest need of every human soul, and, if given a chance, the Iraqi people will be not only self-governing, but a stable and free society.

[_Schadenfreude_]

The Emperor has no clothes...look the Emperor has no clothes....

[beet1e]

<-- my initial reaction upon reading the news.

It's not possible to negotiate with terrorists, criminals and murderers like AQ. I even had to swallow hard when I saw pictures of the Blair/Gaddafi handshake. (But that Blair visit to Libya was just a put up job to draw justification to the war in Iraq.)

Shortly after 911, Tomato gave me two paperback books all about AQ and their terror campaign. One included a fascinating piece of detective work carried out by the FBI in New York in identifying the culprits of the 1993 WTC bombing. The mastermind and explosives expert was a guy who called himself Ramsey Youssef. He had been linked to an earlier attempted bombing of an airliner in the vicinity of Indonesia. (I think the bomb did go off, killing one passenger - I forget the exact details) When Youssef was sentenced to life imprisonment in the US (high security facility near CO Springs, where he will die), the judge remarked that AQ's claims defending Islam in their actions was flawed. He went on to say that with Indonesia being a Muslim stronghold, it followed that there would have been many muslims on board the plane that Youssef tried to blow up. AQ does not respect other muslims or the Koran. Their god is Death. They don't care who they kill. Some of the 911 suicide crew did not know until that morning that they were to die in the incident. OBL was tickled pink about that. Think OBL would honour any deal made with Europe? Think that the deal would be set in tablets of stone with no new demands at a later date? Think that the killing would stop?

Think again.

No deals with OBL or AQ. Ever.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Arlo
Interesting opinion, even if it's wrong. The U.S. acted on U.N. mandates that were written in response to Iraq failing to comply with previous mandates that were enacted (the initial measures) at the time of cessation of hostilites during Desert Storm. You can't spin away that paper trail. But you can try.

It's very simple - if the world is supporting your actions in Iraq today please show me in terms of troops and money the extent of that support. The answer is very, very little and the only spinning that is being done is by the current US administration who have no answers to the mess they have put your country in.

I have to agree with the Indiana Star
 
http://www.indystar.com/articles/2/137816-1462-021.html

but he's probably a communist anyway.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
It's very simple - if the world is supporting your actions in Iraq today please show me in terms of troops and money the extent of that support.  

So the only support that exists in your head is troops and money?

[Nilsen]

*closing eyes and counting to 10*

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_

I have to agree with the Indiana Star
 
http://www.indystar.com/articles/2/137816-1462-021.html

but he's probably a communist anyway.

I dunno if Dan Carpenter is a communist or not, but he is obviously a moron.

And if you sign up for the National Guards "to pay for your education" you'd better be prepared to pack your gear and head to war in case war comes. That kinda comes with the territory when you sign up for guard service.



Its disgusting really to see how the pacifists try to spin the death of a serviceman (woman) to serve their own agenda.

She herself knew why she was in Iraq, in her own words
"She felt that she had made a difference in that culture and that there was a liberation that went on."

Shame to see you and mr Carpenter disgrace her death with your own disgusting opinions.

[Maniac]

Its disgusting really to see how the pacifists try to spin the death of a serviceman (woman) to serve their own agenda.

You are a pacifist Hortlund.

[Hortlund]

You must have a really odd definition of pacifist.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Hortlund
So the only support that exists in your head is troops and money?

Difficult to run a war without troops and money I would have thought.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
It's very simple - if the world is supporting your actions in Iraq today please show me in terms of troops and money the extent of that support. The answer is very, very little and the only spinning that is being done is by the current US administration who have no answers to the mess they have put your country in.

Just to put the numbers in perspective, of the foreign troops in country the USA provided 75% of the troop strength in a 15 nation strong coalition.  Americans suffered 94% of the deaths, and 89% of the wounded of the coalition.





Wait... that was Korea, 1950-53.  Seems like Americans are used to carring the load.

[Staga]

Maniac I think you're mixing words retard and pacifist

[Nilsen]

Holden

"Seems like Americans are used to carring the load."

Iits how it should be when you decide to start the fun i the first place isnt it ?

[Hortlund]

Heh...so now Korea was a war of Imperialist Yankee aggression too huh?