Bin Laden offers truce to European States

[_Schadenfreude_]

Grunherz you are a child and a foolish one at that. Nothing more than a little boy parroting the statements that he has heard and trying to get the adults attention.

You can't insult me - your opinion means nothing to me and your arguments and reasoning are that of a uneducated  teenager with little or no experience of the world suddenly let loose in the candy shop that a 1st world consumer society offers.

You really should try to do a little reading, take a sociology or philosophy course or two and learn to think for yrself.

Now run along and go and tell Uncle Ripsnort and Mr Eagler what a nasty person I am.

[GRUNHERZ]

I love the insults... WTG!!!  Whats next make fun of my weight?

Why is it always the anti-war types have to resort to the "think for yourself" line when they run out of arguments?

And I have insuluted you, its obvious, just look at the angry little post you just wrote. Caertainly not the words of somebody who is indifferent about my impact on them....

Otherwise why try to put me down and lift yourself up with your attacks...

You are so transparent... And bitter...


But I am young, and there is much for me to learn as we all do, no matter how old we are and what we have seen.

So I wont hold your behavior against you, I'll just hope you grow up some too...

[Eagler]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Grunherz you are a child and a foolish one at that. Nothing more than a little boy parroting the statements that he has heard and trying to get the adults attention.

You can't insult me - your opinion means nothing to me and your arguments and reasoning are that of a uneducated  teenager with little or no experience of the world suddenly let loose in the candy shop that a 1st world consumer society offers.

You really should try to do a little reading, take a sociology or philosophy course or two and learn to think for yrself.

Now run along and go and tell Uncle Ripsnort and Mr Eagler what a nasty person I am.

If he can't insult you and is just the child you say he is, then why do you insult him?

Do you pick on kids for kicks or is he more an adult than you will admit?

Mr Eagler

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Arlo
Perhaps you can clarify things by pointing us to the UN resolution against the US and UK in response to their taking action after 12 years of UN resolutions (and after the FINAL resolution)?

Can't find it - I can't find one that thanks you for it either, though.

The UN caved in to the US & UK, rather than risking suicide by enforcing the UN charter. Although in doing so, it probably has done anyway.

It took a while to lift the sanctions, though, and to do so the US and UK had to admit to being occupation forces - hardly a gushing thank you, then. It's not so much an approval as letting you get away with breaking the law.

However the UN's cowardly act of giving in to the US & UK doesn't exactly help your argument that the UN's "serious consequences" meant invasion either, now does it? Not really the act of a bunch of hardliners, is it? It's also worth noting that the "12 years of UN resolutions" against Iraq were for the most part introduced by the US & UK.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I love the insults... WTG!!!  Whats next make fun of my weight?

Why is it always the anti-war types have to resort to the "think for yourself" line when they run out of arguments?

And I have insuluted you, its obvious, just look at the angry little post you just wrote. Caertainly not the words of somebody who is indifferent about my impact on them....

Otherwise why try to put me down and lift yourself up with your attacks...

You are so transparent... And bitter...


But I am young, and there is much for me to learn as we all do, no matter how old we are and what we have seen.

So I wont hold your behavior against you, I'll just hope you grow up some too...

Well I will certainly continue to try to learn however we all are shaped by our experiences and see the world through the prism formed from those experiences.

Personally I think that the life experiences that shaped your views are so different to the ones that shaped mine that it is doubtful that we could ever reach agreement.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Eagler
If he can't insult you and is just the child you say he is, then why do you insult him?

Do you pick on kids for kicks or is he more an adult than you will admit?

Mr Eagler

If someone wishes to make things personal and suggesting I go and kill Americans is to me extremely personal - then they can expect to be slapped and hard.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by -dead-
Can't find it - I can't find one that thanks you for it either, though.

Bound to be one ... either one. Either the US and the UK are war criminals like your ilk tends to claim or the UN writes "thank you" resolutions. Right? If you want to take your stubborn stance on this to the point of sillyness (you certainly aren't debating the issue, your mind was made up to begin with and you're simply trying to "correct other peoples misperceptions") then expect those of us willing to exhibit common sense not to take you seriously.

[Capt. Pork]

If Bin Laden were cornered in some cave somewhere, his identify confirmed and his ability to resist used up, how many of you, if the choice were yours and yours alone, would have him killed right there?

What if you had to make that choice knowing that you could take him alive without risking the lives of your men?

What if you had to make that same choice knowing that the public was aware that you were deciding, and that your decision would be final?

Just curious.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Arlo
Perhaps you can clarify things by pointing us to the UN resolution against the US and UK in response to their taking action after 12 years of UN resolutions (and after the FINAL resolution)?

Come on Arlo, you know better than that.  Everyone knows that any draft resolution against the US, UK, France, Russia or China would be a waste of time because they would be simply be vetoed.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Well I will certainly continue to try to learn however we all are shaped by our experiences and see the world through the prism formed from those experiences.

Personally I think that the life experiences that shaped your views are so different to the ones that shaped mine that it is doubtful that we could ever reach agreement.

You would be surprised.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Come on Arlo, you know better than that.  Everyone knows that any draft resolution against the US, UK, France, Russia or China would be a waste of time because they would be simply be vetoed.

Then it appears that the US and the UK didn't act against the will of the UN after all. They just acted. Which is simply ... out of character ... when it came to what the other members were or were not prepared to do in the case of settling Iraq's long term non-compliance with the Desert Storm cease fire agreement.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Arlo
Then it appears that the US and the UK didn't act against the will of the UN after all. They just acted. Which is simply ... out of character ... when it came to what the other members were or were not prepared to do in the case of settling Iraq's long term non-compliance with the Desert Storm cease fire agreement.

Fraid not.  Just because they can't face censure doesn't mean they haven't acted against the Charter and resolutions.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Fraid not.  Just because they can't face censure doesn't mean they haven't acted against the Charter and resolutions.

Straw man argument. It's come down to opinion.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Capt. Pork
If Bin Laden were cornered in some cave somewhere, his identify confirmed and his ability to resist used up, how many of you, if the choice were yours and yours alone, would have him killed right there?

What if you had to make that choice knowing that you could take him alive without risking the lives of your men?

What if you had to make that same choice knowing that the public was aware that you were deciding, and that your decision would be final?

Just curious.

What ever choice I would make, I still wouldn't have got the guy who is the probably the real brains behind Al-Qaeda and it's terror campaigns.

I would have captured/killed the guy who has no basis - no real argument to back his religious islamic claims for what he has done. Who has no real political skills, but one of the few really rich arab fighters which originally made his name, before he was quickly demonized by the media, and govts. like all the classic single sound byte symbols that we need to trasmit to the masses...

 Tronsky

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Arlo
Straw man argument.

Actually no it isn't.

You can find an excellant description of the "Straw Man" fallacy here...

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

...as well many other logical fallacies.  It's an excellant site, I hope you look it over.

I'll explain my position using an example.  Lets say a person commits a crime in the US and flees to another country.  They can't be held accountable, but that doesn't mean a crime hasn't been commited.

It's come down to opinion.

It hasn't come down to opinion, the whole discussion was opinion.  What we have been debating is the reasoning and information that we are basing our opinions on.


It seems to me that you might be tiring of the discussion.  If that's the case I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts with me in such and excellant manner.  I apologise for any offence and immaturity on my part.  And I would like to leave off with this quote.  I can't say I keep to it's message all the time but it's a ideal I try and strive for.

"I am one of those who are very willing to be refuted if I say anything which is not true, and very willing to refute any one else who says what is not true, and quite as ready to be refuted as to refute-I for I hold that this is the greater gain of the two, just as the gain is greater of being cured of a very great evil than of curing another. For I imagine that there is no evil which a man can endure so great as an erroneous opinion about the matters of which we are speaking and if you claim to be one of my sort, let us have the discussion out, but if you would rather have done, no matter-let us make an end of it."
 
- Socretes, from "Gorgias" by Plato.