Author Topic: Luftwaffe ATG Rockets?  (Read 1912 times)

Offline Wilbus

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Luftwaffe ATG Rockets?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2004, 12:48:15 PM »
The F8 should have the Panzerblitz rockets...
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Rasker

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Luftwaffe ATG Rockets?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2004, 12:50:50 PM »
I was thinking of a solution that didnt involve any more modeling work by the gang.  Those Russian rockets darn good tank killers btw.  OTOH, having R4Ms available for air to air *and* air to ground work... :)

Offline Wilbus

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Luftwaffe ATG Rockets?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2004, 03:58:32 PM »
Problem is weight/size difference and all that. The F8 was capeble of having 6 Panzerblitz rockets under each win, that's a total of 12 rockets. Would look weird with 12 of those russian rockets under the wings.

I don't know why Pyro hasn't added the Panzerbltiz yet, there is enough evidence that they were used in the war and it would give the LW and very potent anti-tank weapon. The 110 G2 carry a large bomb load, so does the Ju87 but the F8 is the real FIGHTER-bomber but it lacks loadouts.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Jester

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Luftwaffe ATG Rockets?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2004, 06:15:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I still don't quite see how the rockets can do much damage vs. tanks.


They aren't moving that fast, they don't have much explosives...



The U.S. HVAR aircraft rocket has the same explosive power as a 5 inch (127mm) Naval shell - same as the main gun on a Destroyer.

If I am not mistaken, some of the German rockets had the same anti-armor punch as a 88mm ani-tank round.
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Offline Rasker

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more on unguided rockets in WW2
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2004, 02:54:40 PM »
.1] UNGUIDED ROCKETS IN WORLD WAR II [from http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomb5.html]

* The origins of airborne rockets for ground attack are obscure, but their first major use was in World War II. Most of the major combatants developed unguided rockets for use with attack aircraft, and these weapons had devastating effect on armor and other targets. The simplicity and effectiveness of unguided rockets have kept them in use to the current day.

The Soviets were one of the first combatants to develop airborne rockets, introducing the "RS-82" rocket even before the Nazi invasion in the summer of 1941. The RS-82 had a diameter of 8.2 centimeters (3.23 inches) and was highly effective.

Later it the war, the RS-82 was followed by a similar but bigger rocket, the "RS-132" (with, naturally, a diameter of 13.2 centimeters, or 5.2 inches). The RS-132 was manufactured with either a hollow-charge warhead for attacking armor, or a blast-fragmentation warhead for attacking soft targets.

The earliest unguided rocket system used operationally by the United States in World War II was the "M-8" 11.4 centimeter (4.5 inch) triple-tube "Bazooka" launcher. This weapon consisted of what looked like three pipes bundled together, each containing a stubby rocket about 40 centimeters (16 inches) long, with the bundle attached to an aircraft's stores pylons in place of a bomb.

The M-8 had fins that unfolded in the airstream after launch. It was very inaccurate, but had a reasonable punch. The M-8 was used with US Army Air Force aircraft such as the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, North American P-51 Mustang, and Lockheed P-38 Lightning.

The British developed their own unguided airborne "rocket projectile (RP)". This was a simple weapon with fixed cruciform tailfins and a tubular body 7.62 centimeters (3 inches) in diameter. The RP was originally developed for barrage anti-aircraft fire in the desperate days of 1940:41, but after the threat of invasion receded, the large stocks available were adapted for use by attack aircraft.

The RP could be fitted with an 11 kilogram (25 pound) solid armor-piercing head, or a bulbous 12.5 centimeter (5 inch) high explosive warhead. The high-explosive version was also known as the "60 pounder" (27 kilogram) RP for the warhead weight. These rockets were used to arm the Hawker Hurricane, Hawker Typhoon, Bristol Beaufighter, de Havilland Mosquito, and other aircraft.

The relatively cluttered launch rails used by the RP usually reduced the speed of the carrier aircraft by a good fraction, but the rockets were effective enough to make the reduction in performance worthwhile. The Typhoon so was devastating in attacks on German armor with the 60-pounder that it became known as "Rockoon".

The RP was also supplied to some US aircraft such as the Grumman TBM Avenger, but combat experience demonstrated to the Americans needed something with more punch than the M-8 or the British RP. The US Navy accordingly sponsored the development of an improved aerial rocket at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), resulting in the 12.7 centimeter (5 inch) "High Velocity Air Rocket (HVAR)", which was introduced in mid-1944. The HVAR was also occasionally known as "Holy Moses" because of its impressive destructive effect.

The HVAR was 1.83 meters (6 feet) long and weighed 63.5 kilograms (140 pounds). It had fixed fins and was carried on streamlined stub pylons under the wings of aircraft such as the Thunderbolt, Mustang, Grumman F6F Hellcat, and Vought F4U Corsair. It had a steel-cased warhead and could penetrate 3.8 centimeters (1.5 inches) of armor and 1.2 meters (4 feet) of reinforced concrete.

It was also used in the Korean War with good effect. Some photographs from that time show HVARs fitted with large conical armor-piercing warheads. These were apparently improvised when UN forces found out just how hard a target a Soviet-built T-34 tank really was.

After developing the HVAR, the Caltech research group then developed a bigger unguided rocket named "Tiny Tim". The Tiny Tim resembled a scaled-up HVAR, had a diameter of 30 centimeters (a foot), a length of 3.12 meters (10 feet 3 inches), and a weight of 582 kilograms (1,284 pounds) including a 270 kilogram (590 pound) warhead. It was carried on standard bomb racks, igniting after it had fallen free of the aircraft.

The Tiny Tim was intended for "bunker busting" and similar tasks. It was deployed on US Navy Hellcat fighters late in the war in the Pacific, and also used with A-1 Skyraiders and other aircraft during the Korean war.

* The Germans were impressed by rocket-firing Allied fighter-bombers and decided to develop their own unguided air-to-ground rockets, with very little result.

The first attempt was to use the "Panzerschreck" infantry anti-tank rocket, a scaled-up derivative of the American "Bazooka" rocket, from underwing launch tubes. Trials showed the Panzerschreck didn't have enough range, and so it was followed by the "Panzerblitz I", which took the hollow-charge warhead from the Panzerschreck and fitted it with an improved rocket motor. It was launched from underwing wooden "crate"-style racks.

The Panzerblitz I still wasn't satisfactory, and so the next step was to adapt the "R4M" rocket. The R4M was a fairly potent weapon that was used in some numbers at the end of the war for air-to-air combat. It had a diameter of 5.5 centimeters (2.17 inches), was kept on course with pop-open fins, and was fired from underwing racks. The R4M was modified for ground attack by fitting it with a hollow-charge warhead, creating the "Panzerblitz II".

Finally, there was an experimental fit of the 28-centimeter (11 inch) Werfer-Granate 28/32 barrage rocket for ground attack. The German air-to-surface rockets saw little or no service.

Offline GScholz

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Luftwaffe ATG Rockets?
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2004, 05:43:30 PM »
Nice read, but the author did mess up on the Panzerblitz rockets. Both Pb1 and Pb2 used the R4M rocket, and only the Pb2 used the Panzerschreck warhead. The Pb1 used the 80mm (81.4mm) warhead of the Granatwerfer 34.
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