Author Topic: Hmm, this gun study in Australia may differ from Vulcans opinion (Read 1089 times)

Shane · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2004, 08:35:49 AM »

all true freemen need this :

http://www.airforce-technology.com/contractors/cannons/pakistan/pakistan4.html

to defend against the black helicopters!

Chairboy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2004, 09:19:39 AM »

http://www.a-human-right.com/

lazs2 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2004, 02:27:58 PM »

chairboy... that is the perfect website... I would be extremely interested in how some of the anti gun rights nuts on this board answer the questions in the "guns are a liability" section.

lazs

Vulcan · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2004, 03:02:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Seems like Vulcan and Blue have differing opinions on firearms down under. Imagine that!

Not really - everyone knows Sydney is a cesspit of crime. But relative to what you have in the US as far as gun crimes go its only a fraction.

Come to NZ Rip, see how it feels to walk down a street with unarmed cops

Gixer · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2004, 06:32:11 PM »

I think the pro gun less crime debate is a pro gun guy's wishful thinking. Now I'm not anti gun, I've been associated with the NZDA (New Zealand Deer Stalkers Association) for some 20 years, a friendly NZ version of your NRA. But I do agree that NZ has the right balance as far as gun laws for hunting,sport shooting and gun ownership.

The reason I say pro gun less crime is wishful thinking is simply because compare two statistics:

1- The number of crimes in the US where a firearm is used. Anything from a BB gun,handguns,shotguns what ever.

2- The amount of injuries and deaths related to the use of firearms in crime.

Now compare that with any other western country on a per peson basis. Or you could combine the populations of the commonwealth countries UK,Canada,Australia and NZ which is all have pretty similar gun laws though I think UK would be most extreme. And I doubt infact could gurantee that on points 1 or 2 that they would be higher then the US which has the most open gun laws of any western country.

I agree with Vulcan, I live in NZ's biggest city and when out with my girlfriend at night it is very assuring to see cops without guns walking the beat. You can still safely walk around the darkest of back ally's at night without the fear of someone asking you for your wallet. And if you did have the misfortune of someone asking you for your wallet you can gurantee that he won't be holding some old .38 at the time.

Another interesting statistic, if you look at young males 18 to 30 in the US what is the biggest cause of death. Car accidents or guns?

Reason I ask is that I once read that in this age catagory statisticly more are killed by guns then car accidents. Which is a pretty shocking statistic.

~~...-Gixer~~

Vulcan · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2004, 07:10:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
chairboy... that is the perfect website... I would be extremely interested in how some of the anti gun rights nuts on this board answer the questions in the "guns are a liability" section.

lazs

Good question Lazs... lets look at this example:
My level of familiarity with firearms is:
I am ignorant of how they function.
I know the basics of gun safety.
I carry for self-defense, compete or hunt.
I am an firearms instructor.
I know how guns function from watching TV.

How do I answer this? I've handled firearms extensively from the age of about 8. I'm not a firearms instructor, nor do I 'carry'. The question are loaded.

The rest of the questions are impertinant to NZ. I have never been attacked with a firearm, nor am I ever likely too.

You just can't wrap your head around the fact that not all the world is as screwed up as the US is with guns can you?

brendo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2004, 09:27:45 PM »

Bluedog,

Lever action 30/30s are not banned.

In terms of crimes, dunno, but a shop owner killed a theif with one about 10 years ago.

Bluedog · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2004, 11:41:37 PM »

You could be right there Brendo, I was just going on what a mate had told me, he used to own a really nice old Winchester (? Model '94?) .30/30 lever action, and doesnt any more, when I asked about it, he said they were now illegal.....must admit, I couldnt see the reasoning behind that one at all. Might even be a state Govt thing here in QLD that doesnt apply in NSW too I guess.

BTW, the shop owner that killed a thief with a .30/30.........I've seen what one does to pigs, and at your typical in-store-firefight range, my God that woulda been messy!! Talk about overkill. May as well use solid slugs from a 12 Gauge .

PS Still in touch with Retnuh? I'd be interested in his point of view on this, as he would be in a position to know what sort of impact the laws have made at street level.
I'd guess somewhere between 'not a whole helluva lot' and 'sweet Fanny Adams' myself.

Blue

Excel1 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:17:10 AM »

Originally posted by Vulcan

The rest of the questions are impertinant to NZ. I have never been attacked with a firearm, nor am I ever likely too.

I can't say the same for myself.
I have been threatend and shot at on two occasions in the last twenty years while working my farm.

I'm well armed now,have been for a long time, and I plan on staying that way despite any tougher gun regs the gov introduces.

And from what I hear tougher regs are in the pipeline.

Excel

Angus · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:52:33 AM »

Gixer. spot on!
Same here up in Iceland, unarmed police, very little guns in rotation. Gun crimes almost non-existent.
One can still hold firearms for hunting, even lever operated up to .22 magnum, as well as pumps and 4-shot semi auto shotguns.
But Hanguns are forbidden. There is nothing you are allowed to hunt with those, and they are easy to hide, so....no handguns.
I rather like it. For a weapons license one needs a clean crime record, 2 guarantoors, a course, and a police interview.
Seems to work ok.
The US gun paradox is that the US has a stunning percentage of its inhabitants in jail, while people still don't think that the streets are safe enough.....sort of weird really....

lazs2 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:09:00 AM »

this is too funny... NZ and iceland? real gangsta hot spots those with borders that have to fight off the third worlders..

sheesh... soviet russia was a very safe place to walk the streets even in the middle of the night (cept for the curfew) is that what you want?

If you claim that there is no possibility that you will ever need a firearm on a farm then you are just silly.

oh... you could have answered that you have "some familiarity with firearms" compared to a free people your familiarity is minor unless you had a lot of military training.

I haven't commited any crime with a firearm or murdered anyone or even injured anyone in a firearm accident... by what basis would you deny me the right to own one?

I have used firearms to prevent crime being done to me and someone else. I am fairly large and mean spirited but am getting a little long in the tooth... guess when someone stronger comes along I should just... what? yell for help? give up?

unless I want to live in some socialist whitebread country and be a "subject" and even then... I will probly be prudent to be armed enough to defend myself.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #26 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:13:55 AM »

Hehe, I AM a Farmer, and I have firearms.
I however see no need for city folks to fill the place with handguns....
BTW, "little" Greenland is flooded with firearms. Strangely, their gun crime rate is also quite high...

lazs2 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:16:00 AM »

angus... why do you suppose those people are in jail? In rural America that is miserable cold and undesirable with very few minorities like the dakotas you will find that the percentage of incarcerated people is low.

We put bad people in jail... not enough of em... and not long enough but when we can... We have a lot of bad people here. Very few of the people in jail are in jail for gun crimes.. they strongarm and rob for the most part. They are afraid of citizens with guns.. they would like nothing better than for the population to be unarmed.

what happens in iceland or nz has no relevance at all to the U.S. situation.

or... even australia.. I belive that australia is a vibrant economy with a lot of individualism still extant. unlike most socialist "subject" states. If they had mexico for a border they would be even more like the U.S. and less like the other suject states.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:17:34 AM »

ah.. I see angus... yu can be trusted with firearms and you need them but your fellow man is untrustworthy and incapable of decideing how to defend himself? You will make a good mother.

lazs

Angus · « **Reply #29 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:23:10 AM »

Point is, a Big gun is just as good if not better for defence, while a hangun is way better for the crime jobs.
You don't have to be a farmer to hold a gun, but as one you will need it sometimes, NOT FOR SELF DEFENSE actually, rather for putting a sick cow out of its misery, etc....