Author Topic: Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?  (Read 1154 times)

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2004, 08:58:54 AM »
seems reasonable enough to me.   stereotypes are very useful most of the time... otherwise... they wouldn't have gotten enough popularity to become stereotypes.

lazs

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2004, 09:03:39 AM »
I think it's very "cliché" Hortlund ,pay us a visit and you will see how France is different and how the media paint us sometime in a strange way (even our média).

France can be a very different country depending where you are there is lovely people and people who just need a bullet in the head.
Exactly like the US there is diversity here, from the ultra-leftist to the moderate.

I smilled when I've seen your sentence about the French peasant ,you know the term Jacquerie was invented in France ? it just a long tradition of peasant revolts :)

And concerning terrorism appeasement it look like you don't see the news we have it can pass a week without some Iman being sent back to their country or arrest of muslim suspects.

Offline ravells

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1982
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2004, 09:28:13 AM »
You havn't seen the size of the bill yet :D

Ravs

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2004, 09:42:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
IF YOU HAVE SENT ME A BILL!
[/b]
...without having done any work for me...
Quote

... I'LL CALL YOU ... ... ...

...a good lawyer?

Offline Monk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1823
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2004, 11:02:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

Main country in EU now - probably Germany. Theirs is the biggest economy.
Bwahahaha!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2638593.stm

Offline Monk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1823
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2004, 11:04:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Duedel
No no, lets better build somthing like the USA where people have to have 3 jobs to be able to buy their burgers and freedom fries.
Bwahahaa........ your great social system is Imploding.

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2004, 12:05:10 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I have a few points to raise before my rant.

Hortlund, do you think Sweden was right not to adopt the € currency? Give reasons for your answer. I'm just interested in your point of view.

Monk - you are in/near Frankfurt? I might be visiting friends there soon. Thanks for posting that link! One of the points it makes is
Quote
Germany must take action on its looming budget deficit by 21 May or face punishment, the European Commission has warned. The dressing-down from Brussels is being seen as a humiliation for the government of Europe's largest economy but is not expected to lead to any immediate financial penalty. It comes at a difficult time for Germany, which is suffering very low economic growth, high unemployment and the threat of strikes by public sector workers.
Part of Germany's problem stems from adoption of the € which required all participating countries to surrender control of their interest rates to Brussels. Thus, Germany continues to be in a pickle because it's stuck with interest rates of around 3½%, when what it really needs is an interest rate cut to stimulate the economy - possibly to as little as 1% or even ½%. But it can't do that. This whole concept of a single currency throughout Europe would be fine - if it would work. Great not having to keep converting money from one currency to another. That used to cost businesses millions of £ every year. But the single currency simply pretends that all the member states' economies are the same, and simply pretends that market forces in the different member states are the same. They are not. They are very different. As Germany is now finding out.

And now my rant. In 1975, I voted YES in the EU Referendum - should we stay in the EU. To be honest, I had no clue about Europe. The reason I voted as I did was because the NO voters were led by Labour's far left wing "Tribune" group of MPs (Tony Benn, Michael Foot, and a couple of others who have since died) A NO vote would have given that bunch a carte blanche to take control and lead the march towards Socialism - high taxes, a tax on wealth, punitive taxes on our freedoms like driving. These are the people who supported the 83% income tax, and on motoring even proposed Pay-As-U-Drive meters in cars! On that day in 1975, the country voted YES by 2-1. Huge relief.

Neil Kinnock, who led the Labour party 1983-1992 was vehemently opposed to Europe when he arrived on the political scene in the 1970s. But he changed his tune when he saw how he might personally benefit from it. Having led his party to defeat in two general elections, he took up a new career - working for the EU in Brussels on a salary of £140,000 tax free, with expenses and accommodation provided. Can you say "champagne socialist"? His job in recent years has been to investigate corruption/fraud/waste in the EU, but from what I've heard a lot of information has been swept under the carpet. Dowding has already mentioned corruption at the EU. But what hope if those investigating corruption are themselves corrupt?

I see Blair doing the same thing after he leaves British politics. He'll probably get a cushy number in Brussels, and he and Cherie will be able to continue their globe trotting lifestyle while someone else clears up the mess of his legacy as British PM.

That's the end of my rant.

I don't propose to read the entire EU Constitution. Very few people will. It's enough (for now) to know that under that constitution, EU law would have primacy over British law and that of other EU member states. And if Britain were to be joining America in a new military skirmish somewhere, that would be decided by the President of Europe, not the Prime Minister of Britain. And of course we would have to have the € and surrender control of our interest rates.

There is some concern over how the EU referendum should be worded. I absolutely agree with Schaden when he said
Quote
the question is of course what exactly are we going to vote on and that question is going to be very, very carefully framed by the Labour Party to give it the answer it wants to hear.
That being the case, I think the Labour Govt. would do well to get Lazs to compose the wording of the referendum. :lol

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2004, 12:10:01 PM »
I thought our socialists were bad ... giving what you say about your labout guys it seems to me that my socialists are innocent lambs :D

Offline Monk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1823
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2004, 12:10:47 PM »
Quote
Monk - you are in/near Frankfurt? I might be visiting friends there soon.

Yup, just outside near the airport.  Drop me a line.

Offline vorticon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7935
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2004, 12:11:16 PM »
i think the entire EU thing is a joint plan between the germans and french to unite all of europe into one country and is being done simply because both the french and the germans have proven that europe cannot be united through war...uh oh...here come the black helicopters...wheres my tinfoil hat... AARRGGHHH NOT THE EYES NOT THE EYES!!!!

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2004, 12:11:46 PM »
" That being the case, I think the Labour Govt. would do well to get Lazs to compose the wording of the referendum. "

the resultant wailing and knashing of teeth would be glorious..
lazs

Offline vorticon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7935
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2004, 12:15:35 PM »
Quote
knashing of teeth


there may be british involved...youd best change that part :p

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2004, 12:16:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Hortlund, do you think Sweden was right not to adopt the € currency? Give reasons for your answer. I'm just interested in your point of view.
 


No, I think Sweden made a bad choise in that referendum. There are many reasons why the elections went the way they went, basically people were voting on other issues than the one on the ballot. Instead of the "should we adopt the euro"-question, people were answering "do you like the sitting government", "do you like the EU" or "do you think we should teach the big corporations a lesson by voting agianst their wishes"-questions with their vote [size=0]yes, I've lost what little faith in democracy I had left after that election[/size]

It would benefit Sweden to be a €-nation because our economy is already tied to the euro-economy and we would have larger influence-abilities on our own economy if we were part of  €...how odd that might sound.

Since we are so very export-dependent, currency fluctuations could hit many of our industries very hard. Not the big ones naturally, because they secure all export deals to other currencies, but medium/small ones.

Offline Furball

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15781
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2004, 01:52:45 PM »
No.

Lets start a commonwealth with Canada, USA, Australia and NZ instead :D
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
-Cicero

-- The Blue Knights --

Offline Duedel

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1787
Euros: EU Constitution - YES or NO ?
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2004, 01:56:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Monk
Bwahahaa........ your great social system is Imploding.

Yep, ur social order will be too.