How i'd like to see stratergy evolve. What do you think?

[jmccaul]

   In another thread Teapot suggests idea's about having economic and logistic factors in the strategy (which incidentally I think is a very good idea) but I think the best way to improve enjoyment of a main arena would be to find away to make players fly together in more co-ordinated attacks as it is at the moment, from my experience so far in AW and AH, the team in the ascendancy (i.e. The one taking the fields) takes field by individuals taking a bomb over on there own dropping it, furballing, dying/running home and if enough people do this a field will eventually be taken. What I would like to see is strategy system which will include the elements mentioned above but to successfully take a target a lot of firepower would need to hit it in a short space of time. Also I believe field's should be further apart so just taking off and heading for an enemy field would leave players isolated and outnumbered when they reached the field. (as the "lone wolves" would be spread out by the time they reached). The objectives of these 2 suggestions would hopefully mean for a team to be successful players would have to group together and fly in armarders of bombers and escorts. Anyone who has played scenarios knows what a great feeling it is to fly in a formation heading for a target  and then suddenly meet another wing of enemy aircraft and fighting desperately to defend your bombers. Hopefully if this attacking in waves could be established in a 24/7 arena there would be a lot less vulching and therefore complaining as the enemy would only be over the target with reasonable numbers of planes for short periods, the defending side would have the opportunity to regroup and meet the attackers with armarders of there own.

   This of course is just how I would like to see arena play evolve in the end it is down to the community in weather they want to furball all day and drop the occasional bomb or weather they want to be part of these raids where there furballing skills will matter as they will be vital in weather their bombers reach and destroy the target. The changes to the game itself of putting fields further apart and making a target need to take 30 bomb hits in 5 minutes for it to be destroyed would, I imagine, be fairly easy to implement but the real test would be if enough pilots were prepared to wait 5-10 minutes before flying to an objective so this could be organised (AH will be flat rate so it's just a matter of patience) One last advantage would be more people flying buffs because of the guaranteed fighter escort.

   These are just how I would like to see arena progress what do the rest of you think is this the situation you want? Are there better/more ways to encourage this behaviour?            

[chester]

you,i belive are starting to come to see the glaring fault in on-line play.It is i think a matter of player behavor. I still think if only there were a strong death penilty it would cause more realistic behavior.If you check WEBSTER's def.you find these aren't games,nor sims.basicaly they are anarchy with wings.The programs are first rate.The players,i belive,need to understand without guidelines,codes of conduct and rules of engagement there will only every be anarchy. Nothing since the dawn of man has existed in a state of anarchy for long.Nothing ever will!On-line gaming WILL become regulated. We can either step up to the plate and take a hand in the formation of the genre,or have it thurst upon us!I hope this thread garners discussion.But several such discussions have already been flamed away.IF we are'nt moving foward,we're falling behind.

[Westy]

 That's what scenarios are for imho Chester.
 
 -Westy

[Werewolf]

Hi,
good idea with the bomb hits. Destroying an airfield should it leave to rebuilt (no capturing possible). 60 250lbs, 30 500lbs or 15 1000 lbs to a small field or all targets destroyed (Jabo thing). For capturing a field tower and acks should be down, everything else must be up. The values for larger fields should be increased.
Rebuild should be influenced by factory outlet and infrastructure which should be measured in percentage. If 50% of both are destroyed (in an area responsible for the field) rebuild should take 50% longer.
100% one hour.
In order to keep people from doom mentality, planes for an airfield should be limited.
For Example 50 fighters, 30 fighter bombers, 20 medium bombers and 10 heavvy bombers for a large field. Resupply is 1 plane each group every minute. If industry and infrastructure are hit raise the time. (e.g. 5% infra & 5% industry hit -> 1 minute more)
It can be related to the bombs in target area.

Check 6

Werewo JG 301 "Heimatverteidigung"
-were- JG 301 "Heimatverteidigung" (WB-US)

[rzch]

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In order to keep people from doom mentality, planes for an airfield should be limited. For Example 50 fighters, 30 fighter bombers, 20 medium bombers and 10 heavvy bombers for a large field. Resupply is 1 plane each group every minute. If industry and infrastructure are hit raise the time. (e.g. 5% infra & 5% industry hit -> 1 minute more)
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 Just as a thought, replacement rate should reflect the over all availablility of planes. Using the numbers from your example perhaps planes should be replaced every 5 minutes at a rate of 5 fighters, 3 Fighter Bombers, 2 Medium Bombers and 1 Heavy Bomber.

just my .02

[roblex]

The big problem with restricting the number of planes at a field is that the person who takes off & dies 10 times in 10 minutes penalizes the person who flew sensibly then found there were no planes left.

Perhaps if the restriction was per player it might work.

Roblex

[Brazos]

Roblex your cookin! Good idea.

[Shade]

I see improvements in "game play" as different to" squad play".  Making  players form up on a single attack plan is contrary to my vision of an open arena game experience.

 Moving fields apart means more $ for just getting up to altitude. Ok, maybe it just eats up time. I aint got much of that either.

Joining  a squad and organizing a raid on a field is a great experience.  I have done it and enjoyed it greatly. But come-on and embrace the anarchy.

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Shade
900th

[Granger]

Taking fields en masse is the purpose of squads. The lone wolf wont be worth much in this situation. You can furball all you want, but to take a field should take an organized effort. Squad nights, where everyone in your squad gets on, plans a mission and executes that mission are the most enjoyable things to do in a sim like this. If you dont want to participate, then dont. But it should be the only way to take a field IMHO.  Bombers will have their targets, excorts will help em get there and others flying cap above the targeted field to ensure success of the mission.
All members of a squad working together to achieve a common goal is what really shines in this type of game to me.

Granger

[Downtown]

With a flat rate, and only one rate, $ isn't an issue.

Perhaps if this is pointed out to a lot of the player base there will be less masturbations, errr, less of a need for self gratification, and a greater desire to develop cooperative tactics.

As someone not currently in an AH squad I would reccomend that MEMBERS of squads take the opportunity to CLEAR 6 of the LONE Wolves occasionally, and advise them "Clear Courtesy of [Insert your Squad here]" this would hopefully show the Lone Wolves the Value Of Cooperative Tactics.

Lead by Example, though there are many folks just unwilling to follow.

I am not creative enough to devise a gran scheme to overcome player Apathy and ANarchy.  There are always players who are going to be more interested in Lone Wolf Tactics, searching for the 1 on 1.

And to be honest, the most satifying kill is the one you make on an opponent who had an advantage.  Having someone to watch you back sort of detracts.

Comming from the perspective of someone who is want to fly according to "Historical" accuracy, I want to fly in an Organized Squad, with a Mission.  Not a lot of folks want this.  They wanna get up and get in the furball.  The only way to show a better way is to show that cooperative tactics produce results and give more rewards than the lone wolf Furball "Quake" type tactics.

So its really up to the players that want more realism, historical accuracy, and Tactics, to SHOW the Lone Wolfs a better way.

Not an easy Task IMO.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

[Westy]

"So its really up to the players that want more realism, historical accuracy, and Tactics, to SHOW the Lone Wolfs a better way.
Not an easy Task IMO."

 Not easy? I think it will develop naturally this way as folks find that they are not paying alot to run a buff up to 25k, or gun that buff, or circle in a fighter at a rendezvous waiting to escort the buffs to target.
 
 Organized OPS will become quite the norm.
 And even the lone wulfs will gravitate to the action that develops due to these efforts
as that is where the heaviest action will be  

 -Westy
 

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 10-06-1999).]

[jmccaul]

   The idea I had wasn't really to eliminate lone wolves but just make a bombing raid with an escort of reasonable size a more common occurrence to give people who aren't that "in" to the game a chance to participate in a raid. To help achieve this goal I think 2 things could be done :-

1) Have a need to drop a lot of ordinance on a target in a short space of time in order to take it. This means in order to make progress and start winning you need a lot of bombers bombing a target at once, nesscetaiting formations of buffs and escorts.


2) Have fields further apart making people think twice before just heading back over to their target immediately just to be outnumbered and killed. As it is only a 5 min hop over to an enemy field what is happening at the moment is the team in the ascendancy has 70% of it's planes over the enemy field and 30% on the way, while the enemy is just scrambling as many fighters of possible leading to low alt furballs. Hopefully the greater distance will give a few extra mins preparation time for both teams and more evenly fought battles.  

     

 I don't know what proportion of people join squads but there will be a lot who aren't. I just hope these two thing would lead to more bombing and escorting. After all at flat rate people can afford to wait 10 minutes while people get together. All it really needs is a few calls over channel 2 along the lines  of "anyone interested in a raid with bombers and escorts be at field 8 in 10 minutes" I am pretty sure there would be enough volunteers if that sort of raid was required to win in the game. Squad nights are good but only occur 1-2 times a week rather than every half hour which hopefully would be the frequency of these less organised raids.

 I will state again that this is only how I would like to see the main arena play and many more people might enjoy the anarchy which will never go completely, which is a good thing but I'd just like to see this more co operative sort of play occurring more often for those who want to participate.

[ft]

For now, the lone wolf tactic for capturing fields seem to work. This means there's no incentive for forming up bomber armadas with escorts.

What we need to do is think up a way to disable the capturing of fields by lone wolfs - without ruining the "get up and furball" aspect of the game for those who prefer that to organized strikes, CAP etc.

Once this is done, we'll be getting somewhere. And as I pointed out in another BB forum, it's already happening, although on a small scale.

[Rojo]

IMHO, the whole concept of field capture needs to go away, at least as the one and only method to "win the war."  Except for a few rare historical incidents, air power never occupied territory. Rather, it made it possible for land forces to take the territory.  We need to break the WB paradyme of field capture.

Divide the terrain into a good old fashion hex-grid, ala tabletop wargames.  Create a dynamic ground war campaign engine such as Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 use.  In those stand alone games, the progress of the ground campaign was INFLUENCED by the airwar.  Air Tasking orders (ATO) are generated by the campaign engine for each side, and posted.  These ATO's specify mission type and targets, including intercept of enemy strikes.  Depending on how successful your side is in executing the ATO, the campaign engine shifts the "front" as time goes on. Do well, and the front will generally shift in your favor.  Allow a major strike to hit your factories, or an armored thrust to roll into your lines unhindered by CAS or interdiction of second echelon forces, and your rear area will soon BE the front line.

This still allows the lone wolfs to cruise for kills, but will reward the side that accepts the tough ATO's and executes them in organized fashion.

Example: The Rooks' Air Operations Center (AOC) generates ATO-9903R, ordering a particular bridge to be captured by paratroops, in order to allow your countries armored forces to quickly forde a river and make a break out into the enemy's rear area.  The Buccaneers send a message to the AOC, accepting ATO-9903R, and begin a five minute planning session.  Four pilots volunteer to fly Gooney Birds. The remain 8 Buccaneers "on-duty" at this time divide into a group of two (Jabo's to take out a radar site, and clear a lane for the C-47s) and a group of six (escort for the drunks). They send out a request for any available pilots to form a scratch force to hit the nearest nme airfield to the target bridge. Their goal is to close it for at least 15 minutes, in order to allow for the troop drop and egress of the strike force.

The strike goes off like clockwork (like all Buccaneer missions  ); as a result, the campaign engine adjusts the frontline in their favor.  Not only does the bridge now belong to the Rooks, so does a big chunk of territory around it, including that enemy airfield supressed during the commando raid. It was "overrun" by the Rooks' armored thrust. Just a few random thoughts.

Rojo (a.k.a. Sabre)

[Teapot]

An online dynamic campaign!
I guess it's headed that way, and it doesn't have to be as complex as Falcon4 to work.
I don't know what sort of fps hit we'd get though.
Maybe the adjustments could be modelled like DI's old Tornado campaign manager  
I like the way the thinking goes here!
BTW, I think that most ppl would relish the idea with working with a squad ... if not we could make the online lives of the lone wolf untenable  , because in a massive air war, the singleton rarely fairs well, even if he/she happens to be an ace pilot!

Cheers
Teapot.

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Phoenix Squadron