Author Topic: A-36 or P-51 A (Read 720 times)

Shuckins · « **on:** April 24, 2004, 08:59:35 AM »

Ahhhhh....Coffee!

Personally...I would like to see the A-36 introduced...for two reasons.

First, it fought in the war in fairly substantial numbers and in several arenas.

Secondly, while it suffered the same performance problems of the similarly powered P-40, by all accounts it was a sterling performer at low altitude. Being a ton lighter than the Merlin-powered Mustangs it was also much more maneuverable. Thus it would be nigh perfect for the low-altitude furball mentality of many pilots in the main arena.

Oh, and I suppose one could add a third reason to the list...it was armed with four 20mm cannon...the only American fighter so armed during the entire WWII period.

Your thoughts?

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Shuckins · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2004, 09:01:38 AM »

Oops, I erred. The F4U-1C was also armed with four 20mms.

Sorry...coffee hadn't kicked in yet.

Shuckins

Flyboy · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2004, 09:44:11 AM »

if i remember right the A36 was a ground attack plane.
and it was bad at this job since it was under powered and weak.

allso it was armed with the usual battery of 6 0.5cal

the 20mm version was the british mustangI (not sure about the type tho)

Batz · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2004, 09:47:27 AM »

flyboy is correct althogh the a36 and/or a p51A would be great for AH even with out the hizookas

.

Dr Zhivago · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2004, 11:45:59 AM »

Isnt A-36 just ordinary Musty with dive brakes bolted on wings and no engine supercharger => poor high alt perfomance plus some extra armor?...

Urchin · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2004, 12:34:50 PM »

The Mustang Ia is the one you all want. It was a Mustang I armed with 4 20mm cannons. I think 200 or so were made.

Rafe35 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2004, 01:36:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
The Mustang Ia is the one you all want. It was a Mustang I armed with 4 20mm cannons. I think 200 or so were made.

Possible that I believe 500 A-36A were made and 200 F4U-1C were made.

Jester · « **Reply #7 on:** April 24, 2004, 03:35:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dr Zhivago
Isnt A-36 just ordinary Musty with dive brakes bolted on wings and no engine supercharger => poor high alt perfomance plus some extra armor?...

A-36 Apache was powered by the non-supercharged Allison Engine - same as the P-40's. The Mustang was powered by the Parckard built Rolls Royce Merlin.

A-36's also had a major weakness for a ground attack plane - the engine was liquid cooled and therefore very vulnerable to A/A fire. Even a single rifle caliber round in the right place could down the aircraft.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #8 on:** April 24, 2004, 04:15:23 PM »

Quote

A-36 Apache was powered by the non-supercharged Allison Engine - same as the P-40's. The Mustang was powered by the Parckard built Rolls Royce Merlin.

The Allisons in the P-51 and P-40 all had superchargers. It would be nice if this myth that they did not, would die. The first P-51s to used the Packard Merlin was the P-51B/Mustang III.

The A-36 in the MTO (27thFBG, 86thFBG) and the Far East (311thFBG) flew 23,373 sorties, dropped over 8000 tons of bombs, claimed 84 EA in the air and 17 on the ground. A total of 177 were lost to enemy action, air and ground. That is 132 sorties per loss.

Replicant · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2004, 04:39:28 PM »

A-36A had 6 x .50s (4 in wings, 2 in nose below engine), dive brakes and carried bombs, Allison engine. It didn't have cannon at all.

Here's an airworthy A-36A I saw a few years ago at Duxford (it was on loan to the museum for a year).

Mustang Mk.IA (RAF) had the 4 x 20mm hispano, Allison engine. Army Cooperation squadrons were often equipped with this plane for armed recon. The USAAF reclaimed some of these planes and also used them as armed recon, calling them something like the F6A?

Widewing · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2004, 05:23:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
The Allisons in the P-51 and P-40 all had superchargers. It would be nice if this myth that they did not, would die. The first P-51s to used the Packard Merlin was the P-51B/Mustang III.

Yes, all Allisons in P-40s, P-39s and P-51s had single-stage, single-speed gear driven superchargers. Far too many authors have failed to do their research and the myth that Allisons were un-boosted has taken root. Eventually, two-stage, two speed superchargers made their way onto the V-1710 in the P-63. However, this was not a gear driven unit, but employed an unusual viscous coupling.

My regards,

Widewing

Shuckins · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2004, 06:47:01 PM »

Francis Dean's "America's Hundred Thousand" contains charts indicating that the P-51 and P-51A were both capable of attaining a speed of 390 mph, the P-51 at 12.500 feet amd tje P-51A at 17,000 feet. The P-51 could touch 375 mph at 25,000 feet despite a power fall off at that altitude. This is fairly formidable performance for the rather modest power output of the Allison engine. The A-36A had a sever power fall off above 7000 feet, due to its low altitude rated version of the Allison engine.

Shuckins/Leggern

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2004, 01:25:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rafe35
Possible that I believe 500 A-36A were made and 200 F4U-1C were made.

How many F4U-4C's saw combat in WW2?

Karnak · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2004, 03:36:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
How many F4U-4C's saw combat in WW2?

None.

The F4U-4 saw combat in 1945 as did the F4U-1C, but the F4U-4C did not see any combat. There are some photos out there that mislable F4U-1Cs at Okinawa as F4U-4Cs and, so far as I know, that is where the myth of the F4U-4C being used in WWII stems from.