Author Topic: R2800 Radial Inverted flight?  (Read 1066 times)

Offline Virage

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1097
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« on: April 25, 2004, 11:21:45 AM »
Did the R2800 have a limitation on inverted flight?
JG11

Vater

Offline Rasker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1265
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2004, 11:25:55 AM »
I recall that F6F's, at least, could fry the engine if engaged in extensive inverted flight.  Don't  know if same problem affactted the F4U or not.

Offline SunTracker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1367
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2004, 07:28:32 PM »
I do believe the P47 could not sustain inverted flight.

Offline Elsinor

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2004, 04:53:49 PM »
Most piston engined aircraft didn't have the ability to fly inverted for extended periods, to include R2800 equipped aircraft.  The reason was the oil system was unable to function properly when inverted, resulting in engine damage.  The P47 flight manual says not to fly inverted for more than 15 seconds at a shot.

Offline Red Tail 444

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2497
      • http://www.redtail.org
Re: R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2004, 05:24:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Virage
Did the R2800 have a limitation on inverted flight?


R2800's would fry if inverted for two seconds, but not modeled in AH

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
Re: Re: R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2004, 10:52:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
R2800's would fry if inverted for two seconds, but not modeled in AH


that is wrong.

the R2800-8W used in the early corsair before the -4, the 2800-10W used in the Hellcat -3 and -5 series and the R2800-21, -59, and -63 used in the C and D series P47. The the R2800-18W and present in the -4 series of the Corsair and -6 series of the Hellcat will sustain loss of oil pressure if it remains inverted in a NEGATIVE G environment for more than 8 seconds, as it takes time for the sump to drain all of its oil, and the scavenger takes the oil from the sump.  The engine will not CEASE operation at this point, because it simply does not lose it's oil cooling abilty, the oil, will continually be splashed in the case, but new, cooler oil will not enter the system from the tank as the tank sump will be dry.  If left in this attitude (which depends HIGHLY on the specific situation), damage could be sustained, but is not guaranteed.

In Positive G maneuvers this is not a problem, as the oil system continues to function as though the engine is upright.  In reality the only time this is going to pose a problem in flight are inverted maneuvers that exhibit negative G's for prolonged periods of time, and as the R-2800 Radial is a highly survivable engine, that is capable of returning an aircraft on residual spalsh oil even with cylinders shot away, Losing most of it's oil to begin with...
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Flyboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1582
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2004, 11:38:08 AM »
in warbirds you can destroy your engine if you go inverted for too long.

you can actually see the oil gauge going down.

Offline Red Tail 444

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2497
      • http://www.redtail.org
Re: Re: Re: R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2004, 08:04:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
that is wrong.



2 seconds, 8 seconds, an eternity...Fly inverted in AH...it is not modeled there.

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
Re: Re: Re: Re: R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2004, 10:27:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
2 seconds, 8 seconds, an eternity...Fly inverted in AH...it is not modeled there.


You don't fly real aircraft do you?  6 seconds IS an eternity when it comes to true Negative G flight as it is applied to the engine.  Secondly, the engine, while not recommended by the AIRCRAFT manufacturer is recommended beyond that time frame because of the residual cooling factor of the existing oil, and airflow over the cooling fins.  

Yet, I am sure you "knew" that and were just being sarcastic for the fun of it...

PS. I restore and fly WW2 aircraft for a living...

;)
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Red Tail 444

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2497
      • http://www.redtail.org
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2004, 10:20:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
You don't fly real aircraft do you?  
;)


No, I only fly virtual A/C, and although I did not pick up my virtual A/C flight manual, it's a fact that you can fly for over 8 seconds inverted, and not suffer engine damage.

I'm not sure how long aircraft engines can or can't fly in RL, but in the game as it does not pertain to my job field directly....read last post...

PS. I am a mental health counselor...

:)

Offline frank3

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9352
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2004, 01:40:23 PM »
but are you mental healthy?

Offline F4UDOA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
      • http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/index.html
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2004, 02:43:40 PM »
Bodhi,

What have you flown??

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2004, 09:30:57 PM »
over 1000 hours tt

400 in tail draggers

290 hrs in AT-6 /  SNJ

25 hours in B-25

multiple other hours in warbirds.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline F4UDOA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
      • http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/index.html
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2004, 10:03:12 AM »
Bodhi,

I always wanted to know how come nobody ever did any real life testing in their warbirds.

Like climb, speed or roll test.

I know of a test done in 1989 by a group of test pilots (SETP) that was well documented but I have never heard of any private pilots doing this.

I know there are self imposed restrictions on MAP and other structural limits followed because the A/C are so old but I sure would like to see someone ring out a couple of those old birds.

Offline mars01

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4148
R2800 Radial Inverted flight?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2004, 10:23:25 AM »
Lucky Bastig Bodhi,

Can someone say Dream Job :D

let see 290 hours in a T6 at 50gals per hour, at 2.50 a gal. = $36,250.00  I'm green with envy. :D
« Last Edit: April 30, 2004, 10:32:13 AM by mars01 »