Author Topic: Should Cali Tax the Indian Casinos? (Read 1731 times)

Airhead · « **Reply #60 on:** April 28, 2004, 06:43:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
Right, what i'm trying to do is get the money into the peoples hands.

The Indians who live on the Laytonville Ranchiera each got a check for 11 grand from an Indian Gaming Cooperative. It provided a real bonanza to the local economy.

Sixpence · « **Reply #61 on:** April 28, 2004, 06:54:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airhead
The Indians who live on the Laytonville Ranchiera each got a check for 11 grand from an Indian Gaming Cooperative. It provided a real bonanza to the local economy.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I realize that on some reservations, unemployment is over 80%. What i'm saying is if the casinos are making millions to the point you think they should be paying taxes, why not do it in a creative way that keeps the government hands off the money, and puts it in the hands of the people. The government tends to do stupid things with our money, and if anyone is going to do something stupid with it, it should be the people. Like a wide screen LCD HD TV, color me stupid:aok

MrCoffee · « **Reply #62 on:** April 28, 2004, 07:07:06 PM »

I think we should tax anything that is chrome.

Airhead · « **Reply #63 on:** April 28, 2004, 07:53:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sixpence
The government tends to do stupid things with our money, and if anyone is going to do something stupid with it, it should be the people. Like a wide screen LCD HD TV, color me stupid:aok

Hey, I LIKE my new TV!!! Sheeesh man that was a cold shot!!:mad:

When we had a budget surplus in California (before Bush and the Enron Republicans raped us) nobody cared about Indian gaming- now that it's become so lucrative everyone wants a slice of the pie.

It'll be tough to change things now cause guess who the largest political contributors in the State are? That's right, Indian Gaming.

One good side effect of Indian autonomy is that cage fighting (aka Ultimate mixed martial arts fighting), which has been banned in all States except Louisiana or Arkansas, is staged 20 minutes from my place.

Anyway Lazs you should appreciate the fact Indian lands are free from all those pesky State nannying laws. You can smoke indoors, ride motorcycles without helmets, and run across the room while carrying scissors. Instead of making Indian lands more like California you should focus on making California more like the Indian lands.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #64 on:** April 28, 2004, 08:20:18 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
They should have to get a visa to use our roads and such or to be outside indian land.

Um......be outside Indian land...that's a good one...

Sixpence · « **Reply #65 on:** April 28, 2004, 08:32:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airhead

Hey, I LIKE my new TV!!! Sheeesh man that was a cold shot!!:mad:

lol, well, for me, right now I have more pressing needs, so for me it would be stupid, the wife ack would shoot me down before I got a chance to get it anyway;)

Regular · « **Reply #66 on:** April 28, 2004, 10:36:37 PM »

NATIVE AMERICAN'S can drink any of us gay white man with guns any day.

Long Live Beer!

rpm · « **Reply #67 on:** April 28, 2004, 11:41:23 PM »

Sorry, can't tax the Indian Nation. But if ya want to send in Halliburton to build the casinos for war repairation projects, I'm sure the Republicans would be in favor. It's been a while but we did invade and wipe them out.

lazs2 · « **Reply #68 on:** April 29, 2004, 08:37:49 AM »

airhead.. thank you.. it is 2,000 then. And... I wouldn't mind if California was more like indian land but it's not. As for no one saying anything when the state was flush... not entirely true but... that was when the camels nose was under the tent... little tiny buildings with poker and bingo and such... now the camel named guido has more than his broken nose in the tent... his whole mob is in. The maid is asking for a raise to clean up the camel dung.

six... think about it a little. the 96% means that they make a little off of a lot of people just like the lottery but.. the cost is such that they make a lot... people don't typically lose 300-1500 a lotery unless they are really really stupid... In the lottery there are huge jackpots but allmost no chance of winning them... if indian gaming was a lottery only... no one would play they would make nothing. Caisnos fleece people in a completetly different manner... the losses are higher but the rate of loss over hours or days is low.. 4-20% you can play for a long time and "only" lose a few hundred or a thousand dollars.

The flip side is that very few walk away winners big enough to tax... most win a hundred or two over a few days. Allmost none win 2000 in one place like airheads example... someone winning a grand with one pull of the slot handle and then another grand an hour later and them 1500 two hours latter would not be taxed a cent.

We are living up to our treaty by letting them have an illegal (in the state) casino with no competition... we are eating the havoc the casino causes ... we have asked them to comply with some of our rules tho like deductions and workers rights etc... no problem asking them to pay taxes if they wish to participate. Not asking them to do anything we wouldn't ask any legal casino to do that is operating exactly the same way they are and causing exacly the same burden they are.

barring that... we should allow other gaming iorganizations to open casinos and treat them the same as the indians tax wise. No treaty would be broken... or... we simply could charge a toll to any road leading to an indian casino.

I believe that they would prefer to participate in our state and pay like everyone else.

lazs

Sixpence · « **Reply #69 on:** April 29, 2004, 08:59:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

six... think about it a little. the 96% means that they make a little off of a lot of people just like the lottery but.. the cost is such that they make a lot

Well, are they making alot of money or not? If they are, do what I said.

people don't typically lose 300-1500 a lotery unless they are really really stupid

You would be really surprised

The flip side is that very few walk away winners big enough to tax

And you are not happy with this? Are you going liberal on us?

Allmost none win 2000 in one place like airheads example... someone winning a grand with one pull of the slot handle and then another grand an hour later and them 1500 two hours latter would not be taxed a cent.

I do not think you understand, it's not like that, you think you can run around winning small amounts that add up to 50k and not be taxed? After a certain amount, you have to report it. Here in Ma., once you go over 600, you have to report it...all.

We are living up to our treaty by letting them have an illegal (in the state) casino with no competition

Alot of state lotteries are run by private companies, so they do have competition, every convenience store you see

we have asked them to comply with some of our rules tho like deductions and workers rights etc... no problem asking them to pay taxes if they wish to participate.

We have many American companies who base themselves offshore doing the same.

Whatever money you want to tax them could be done the way I suggested, I refuse to support anything that puts the money into the bureaucracy.

Airhead · « **Reply #70 on:** April 29, 2004, 09:02:33 AM »

Lazs, would you feel better if the Indians were still selling salmon at the side of the road and living on welfare? Before Indian Gaming that's how it was.

Of course the flip side to that is sixty new Indian tribes in California petitioning for recognization so they, too, might open a Casino...

lazs2 · « **Reply #71 on:** April 29, 2004, 09:07:02 AM »

six.. you may be obligated to report all your winnings but the casino is not obligated to report anyone who wins less that 2000.. You are a bright lad.. think about it.. If they were required then no one would gamble.. plus... the paperwork and control would be staggering... Nevada has been doing this a long time and they know and the feds know they are taking a hit on people being dishonest about winnings... they have settled on the reporting limits after a lot of thought... Have you ever heard of anyone reporting winning say $500 on their income tax?

If you want to spare the poor downtrodden indians barely scraping by on 10 billion a year then your scheme will not work... if you want to simply spare them but get more income of the sheep that go there.... then a toll at the roads would be simpler or... A tax on every consumable that the indians would collect and then turn in.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #72 on:** April 29, 2004, 09:12:05 AM »

airehead.... I am not in any way saying take the casinos away from em or take the profits... I am saying that they have gotten so big that they need to pay for the havoc they cause... a couple of billion $ a year will hardly drive them into selling salmon on the side of the road..

but.. are you saying that the only things they can do well is gamble and sell salmon? and that they wouldn't even be able to do that if we dindn't give em total protection from any competition? They hardly seem worth saving if you are correct.

lazs

Sixpence · « **Reply #73 on:** April 29, 2004, 09:13:46 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2

six.. you may be obligated to report all your winnings but the casino is not obligated to report anyone who wins less that 2000

First of all, it is the person who wins that must report it, not the casino, they just report how much went out as winnings. What you said in your last post was that people could win a grand every hour and not report it, that's not how it works.

Have you ever heard of anyone reporting winning say $500 on their income tax?

you are getting into tax evasion

then a toll at the roads would be simpler or... A tax on every consumable that the indians would collect and then turn in.

You my friend, would make a great politician in Massachusetts.

Airhead · « **Reply #74 on:** April 29, 2004, 10:20:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
airehead.... I am not in any way saying take the casinos away from em or take the profits... I am saying that they have gotten so big that they need to pay for the havoc they cause... a couple of billion $ a year will hardly drive them into selling salmon on the side of the road..

but.. are you saying that the only things they can do well is gamble and sell salmon? and that they wouldn't even be able to do that if we dindn't give em total protection from any competition? They hardly seem worth saving if you are correct.

lazs

First- "Havoc?" What havoc? Increased traffic? I hear that alot now, but I never heard the outcry to collect money from Nevada casinos to repair California hiways- that's what a gas tax is for, right?

As far as gamble and sell salmon, most Ranchieras and reservations are in rural areas without much industry, so basically there isn't much to do but drink and pitchfork fish, and using a pitchfork to fish with doesn't take much skill.

Grey Davis is the one who gave the Indians the sweetheart deal (after getting his brib... er.... campaign contrubitions) and Ah0nold has vowed to get a more equitable deal, so expect the Indians to volunteer to kick in a couple billion a year to the State.

BTW, you gone out to Thunder Valley yet Lazs? I don't gamble much but they have a great buffet up there, it's pretty good.