Author Topic: FL residents (Read 261 times)

Lazerus · « **on:** April 28, 2004, 05:05:07 PM »

I'm a couple states away from you guys, but this should concern everyone if what I hear about it is true. HB1513 in the FL house, and SB2548 in the senate are essentially the same and both provide the government with the ability to seize a citizens property, then resell it to a developer. Here's a link to the state webpage listing info on the house bill.

This stems from a court ruling that the words 'public good' in the imminent domain clause can include increasing taxes made on property by seizing the property and selling it to investors or developers. The land is then used for commercial development or upscale housing that increases the property values, thereby increasing the taxes the state can collect on the property.

This has happened in AL recently if I remember correctly. Does anyone know if my take on it is correct? It seems that this would over reach the intended powers of the government if this is true.

Batz · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2004, 05:39:25 PM »

I don’t know the details on that bill but a few years ago I did contract work for the Jacksonville Port Authority. They are expanding the port at Blunt Island and made offers to a group of homes that stood in their way. Most settled with the city and were bought out. The rest went to court and the city won under "imminent domain" and the arguments was made that City stood to gain financially from revenues generated from improvements to the port.

The City won and the folks were forced to move.

These weren’t slums and trailers either; it was water front property with 3 - 5 acre lots (some larger).

After the city got the property they just plowed over the homes and began to build a huge parking lot.

Jacksonville's Port is the second largest car importer on the east coast. New York Being 1st. We had the lighting contract for installing the "high mast" lighting.

Rolex · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2004, 05:58:09 PM »

eminent domain
eminent domain
eminent domain
eminent domain
eminent domain...

The right of eminent domain is a long-established legal principle and no discussion or action will overturn or deny a government the right.

Lazerus · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2004, 06:15:14 PM »

Is the port authority a state run agency in FL? if so if falles under eminent domain rules. same as building a new highway.

The problem with this new bill, as I understand it, is that the government will be able to take your land and sell it to a private developer, circumventing the fair market value practices that were the norm in the past.

Batz · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2004, 07:25:08 PM »

It’s strange; the port authority workers are on the State pension plan and not the cities. I think there is some joint committee of State and City officials that oversea the port. They recently setup a separate commission for the JIA (air port) before it fell under the port authority.

We were sub contacted by the company that was handling the project.

So I don’t know...p

Lazerus · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2004, 08:07:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
The right of eminent domain is a long-established legal principle and no discussion or action will overturn or deny a government the right.

It's not a question of the established right, it's a question of the expansion of that right that allows the government to take your property not for government use, but to sell it to another private company or person for their personal use, ultimately benefiting the government through higher property taxes from raised property values. That last part is what the expansion is based on, as the argument goes that higher property taxes are for the greater good.

AdmRose · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2004, 08:24:35 PM »

Take the property, give them market value +10% - no griping.

Our government obviously likes making problems for itself.

crowMAW · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2004, 08:34:32 PM »

Florida ports are independent taxing authorities. That means they are equivalent to a city/county with independent governing bodies (some governing members are elected positions and others are by appointment from the Governor or local governments). Since they are public they can participate in the Florida State Retirement System. There isn't really an overarching governing body for Florida's ports. There is a advisory council attached to FDOT that has no real power to make the ports do anything. There is also a finance council that oversees the ports dipping into the Florida Transportation Trust Fund. And there is a government "corporation" that acts as a unified lobby. Interestingly, I worked for a short time on the first strategic plan that would have linked all of Florida's ports in order to create a competitive multi-modal transport system...but the individual port authorities really had no interest in losing their autonomy and successfully lobbied it to death. Jaxport used to include both airports and seaports but the two were separated in 2001. Jaxport is not really part of the City of Jacksonville, however its board is partially selected by the Mayor...so there is a tie.

As for the bill...is there a threat any time government's power to exercise eminent domain is increased...YES. I can't speak much about the issues of the bill...I've been out of Florida politics for nearly a year now. But I can still read a legislative analysis. Some key history: Florida has quite a few "dead" subdivisions. I call them dead because they never really developed they way they should...ie many lots went unsold. There were several near where I grew up and as a teen they were great venues for mischief and late night racing since most had excellent unused roads. The problem is that these dead subdivisions had been zoned for single family and once the infrastructure was in place it was hard to re-zone after the subdivision failed.

What this bill does is to make it somewhat easier to consolidate the unsold lots into larger plats for re-zoning. But there are a couple of important criteria for the taking action:

Quote

• Allows the governing body of a county to order the assembly or adjustment of all or part of a subdivision within its jurisdiction to the provisions and objectives of the revised local comprehensive plan, if the following conditions are met:

o The plat was approved or recorded at least 25 years prior to the county commission’s actions; and
o Not more than 20% of the subdivision has been developed for its currently allowable uses.

• Allows a private owner of at least 60% of a subdivision to apply to the county commission to pursue reassembly or a parcel, if the person demonstrates that such action would not affect the ownership or convenient access of other persons who own land in the subdivision, based upon a finding by the governing body that the proposed assembly or adjustment conforms to the comprehensive plan and that the public health, safety, economy, comfort, order, convenience, and welfare will be promoted.

gofaster · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2004, 08:20:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lazerus
Is the port authority a state run agency in FL? if so if falles under eminent domain rules. same as building a new highway.

The problem with this new bill, as I understand it, is that the government will be able to take your land and sell it to a private developer, circumventing the fair market value practices that were the norm in the past.

Don't worry - the gov't will pick up the fees of the attorney representing the homeowners, and those attorneys looooove free government money so they'll fight it for as long as it takes to get the homeowner what the judge thinks the homeowner should get, plus attorney fees of course.