Author Topic: FM2 bug (Read 1302 times)

sax · « **on:** April 28, 2004, 08:47:30 PM »

No weps.

Pyro · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2004, 10:10:02 AM »

I removed it intentionally when I did some remodeling of its performance.

sax · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2004, 04:01:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pyro
I removed it intentionally when I did some remodeling of its performance.

Does that mean no weps in AH2 on the FM2?

stratman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2004, 08:22:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pyro
I removed it intentionally when I did some remodeling of its performance.

Well I feel better now LOL.
I would imagine he will put it back in at some point?

Pyro · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2004, 10:34:06 AM »

Yeah, the wep is gone. It could be modeled with or without depending on what engine was modeled. Halfway through the production run, they switched over to a water injected model of the engine that had an emergency power setting. They also revised the fuel tanks at that point and I had the old fuel tanks with the newer engine so I swapped it to the older engine to make it consistent. I also don't have very detailed info on the wep output.

sax · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2004, 12:59:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pyro
Yeah, the wep is gone. It could be modeled with or without depending on what engine was modeled. Halfway through the production run, they switched over to a water injected model of the engine that had an emergency power setting. They also revised the fuel tanks at that point and I had the old fuel tanks with the newer engine so I swapped it to the older engine to make it consistent. I also don't have very detailed info on the wep output.

Any chance yu will build a new one with weps?
As it is it's the F4F with a different name.
With weps it can barely hold its own against Hurries , Spits or Zekes.
Without --maybe good for running down CV killers.

Basically I'm begging.

Morpheus · « **Reply #6 on:** April 30, 2004, 01:26:24 PM »

yeah im with Sax on this one...

An FM2 with out wep is better off left in the hanger

Batz · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2004, 02:28:55 PM »

Have either of you tested the Fm2?

Form this post by whels

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57526

He tested deck speeds for version 1.10.

Quote

Originally posted by whels
MIL:
TEMPEST 372
LA-7 358
F4U-4 358
TYPHOON 355
YAK9-U 355
P-51D 354
F4U-1 350
P-51B 347
190D-9 346
F4U-1D 343
F4U-1C 342
109G-10 337
LA-5 336
P-38L 333
P-47D-11 333
SPIT-14 332
TA-152 332
P-47D-25 329
P-47D-30 329
190A-8 327
YAK9-T 327
190F-8 326
190A-5 326
MOSQ 325
C205 321
109G-2 320
F6F-5 320
109G-6 317
N1K2 313
109F-4 310
SPIT IX 310
C202 307
KI-61 305
110-G2 305
SEAFIRE 293
SPIT V 293
110-4b 290
FM2 290
A6M5 288
F4F 278
P40B 275
A6M2 275
P40E 276
HURR IIC 262
HURR IID 253
HURR I 253

WEP:
TEMPEST 386
LA-7 380
F4U-4 378
190D-9 375
TYPHOON 370
P-51D 367
109G-10 366
TA-152 361
SPIT-14 358
F4U-1 358
P-51B 358
F4U-1D 357
F4U-1C 356
LA-5 356
YAK9-U 355
190A-8 349
190F-8 349
P-38L 344
P-47D-11 344
P-47D-25 340
P-47D-30 340
109G-2 340
190A-5 339
MOSQ 338
YAK9-T 336
109G-6 336
109F-4 332
C205 331
F6F-5 330
N1K2 324
SPIT IX 319
110-G2 316
C202 315
KI-61 313
SEAFIRE 302
SPIT V 302
110-4B 300
FM2 297
P40E 297
109E-4 292
SPIT I 291
A6M5 288
F4F 275 no wep
A6M2 275 NO WEP
P40B 275
HURR IIC 273
HURR IID 265
HURR I 261

Same test AH2 100% fuel, OTD climbed to 3k dove to deck waited until speed settled. Fuel mod was at min so it kept 100% fuel through out the test.

I dont care enough about the FM2 to do any more tests.

SlapShot · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2004, 03:41:20 PM »

If the FM2 is stripped of its WEP, then you have basically hobbled a very FUN fighter. I believe that you will see its use drop considerably (along the lines of the F4F - which is close to nil).

Level speed is not what the FM2 needs WEP for. As you can see from the list, the list is rather short of what it is faster than.

Because the FM2 is not a speed demon, you won't find it extending too much. Once in the fight, its there until the end. Because the FM2 bleeds E so quickly, when dogfighting, it needs that extra boost from WEP to keep it competative.

Also, it is the only U.S. plane that can really dance with the Spit and Zeke. If hobbled, then all you will see launching off the CVs are Spits and Zekes.

I understand your reasons for the change Pyro, but for the most part, I don't think that anyone has ever complained that the current rendition of the FM2 is over-modeled and runs amok in the MA/CT.

Pyro, how about you put it back in, for fun's sake, and then make the appropriate adjustments when you get more info on the WEP output and fuel tank size.

You don't really want to see Sax beg ... its a sad sight to behold.

sax · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2004, 04:39:47 PM »

:)thx Slap--I somehow feel cheaper now so I mite as well lose all dignity--here goes.

Pyro I have spent as much time or more than any other player in the FM2 and what Slap says is absolutely true.

I couldn't begin to give any data or other support to back up these statements other than time spent behind the stick.

If begging doesn't work I will submit to bribeing.

Batz · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:41:18 PM »

Again have any you of tested the FM2?

193 mph at SL Ah2 FM2 100% fuel

Whel's tested the AH1 FM2 197mph @ SL 100% Fuel

Fork did acceleration tests on the AH1 FM2 at SL and at 18K

How about someone testing the AH2 Fm2 and comparing?

I flown thing for a bit today and seems just as good as in AH1.

Or at least explain what you think is so different about the Fm2 in AH2 @ 100% throttle and the AH1 FM2 and 100% + WEP? Does it climb different?

Its the one thing to want ADI but are if you are saying the FM2 performs differently then AH1 I can't seem to find much difference.

So tell me what the difference is with out "I feel or I think". Those kinds of replies didn’t work for RAM and Mandoble....

But seriously please explain it me.

As you can see by the charts wep only gave a marginal increase in performance.

extra 200fpm climb and 7 to 10 mph increase inspeed.

Pyro · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:47:09 PM »

I have no use for begging or bribes, it wasn't my first option to change it this way, but it was the way that I had a definitive answer. I'm open to changing it again, but I've studied the situation until I've gone cross-eyed and I can't make sense of it with the data I have. What was previously done was incorrect and I had just conveniently tacked on a constant power boost over its entire altitude range up to high blower critical alt. It's also wasn't a very big power boost which is why I don't think it will be missed as much as its been dramatized here. Done correctly, its wep will only be beneficial over a much smaller altitude range, but I believe that the power boost should be quite a bit bigger. I can't hammer it out though.

If you want to submit a bribe to get it changed, I thought of one. Find me some data on the Wright R-1820-56W at emergency power. I don't need any data on military power or below, I have that. I haven't looked outside of my own resources for this, so maybe you can find something without too much hassle.

Pyro · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:50:35 PM »

Batz, military power performance didn't really change much except that I made an adjustment to performance concerning low blower critical alt and where highblower kicked in. SL speed and max speed are still the same.

Batz · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:53:28 PM »

AH ok thanks for the reply Pyro....

Morpheus · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2004, 07:59:18 PM »

Pyro, here is some pretty good info on the development of the F4F through all its variations. Tho it doesnt delv into the specs of the emergency power it held, it does have alot of good info that may be helpful.

Anyways, its a start, a thought.... A try:(

Going to keep looking though