Casualty lists are inflated by media..

[Sandman]

Originally posted by muckmaw
After reading the list of causes of death, 501 were combat related.

"Bring them on."- George W. Bush

[MrLars]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Mrlars!

<>

Takes a good man to admit when he was wrong..

Yeah, I'm more embarrased than anything else, what a stupid mistake that was....live and learn I guess.

[Fishu]

I'd be really interested to also know how many have been WOUNDED in Iraq.
We can assume most of the combat casualties are wounded.
Didn't they say theres like 8-10 wounded to 1 death?  that would mean some 5000 wounded.

[10Bears]

If anything Muck the media is under reporting causalities. Car accident?.. how?.. was he putting the peddle to the metal to get away from whom?.. a tank rolls into the river how?... did they have to make a sudden quick move?.. A 22 yr old perfectly physically fit solider dies from a heart attack. Now I gotta ask.. Did something happen to trigger this heart attack?.. something so terrible as to scare this kid quite literally to death?

Lately they’ve been reporting the deaths but not the wounded.. As we know, for every solider killed three are wounded.. seriously wounded to the point of having to be evacuated from the battlefield.. we’re talking spinal injuries, brain damage, amputations. Your list does not include fatalities that happen over time.. a few months later from infection.

You are also not including sub-contractors that provide security to firms like Halliburton. Using sub-contractors is always a good way to fudge causality numbers.

[stratman]

Originally posted by 10Bears
If anything Muck the media is under reporting causalities. Car accident?.. how?.. was he putting the peddle to the metal to get away from whom?.. a tank rolls into the river how?... did they have to make a sudden quick move?.. A 22 yr old perfectly physically fit solider dies from a heart attack. Now I gotta ask.. Did something happen to trigger this heart attack?.. something so terrible as to scare this kid quite literally to death?

Lately they’ve been reporting the deaths but not the wounded.. As we know, for every solider killed three are wounded.. seriously wounded to the point of having to be evacuated from the battlefield.. we’re talking spinal injuries, brain damage, amputations. Your list does not include fatalities that happen over time.. a few months later from infection.

You are also not including sub-contractors that provide security to firms like Halliburton. Using sub-contractors is always a good way to fudge causality numbers.

The list of maimed and crippled has got to be huge I'm afraid.

Very good points above 10bears.

[strk]

Originally posted by muckmaw
You cannot count combat and non-combat together, because if a guy was going to have a heart attack, he was going to have it in Qatar or Iowa.

There were several soldiers who died in their sleep. A few died while training...ie:running.

If these soldiers were at home, then the accidents would have happened there.

It is unfair of the media to prop up the casualty lists just to create a panic and sell a newspaper, while undermining the war effort.

you dont know that the accidents would have hapenned at home because they didnt.  They only real way to make your point would be to look at accident figures from years before the war.

[strk]

Originally posted by Dago
Did you get that from a Quiji board?

 I don't remember anyone saying that fighting would be done by a certain date.  Only Bush saying that major combat ops were finished.  Unless you would consider the tit-for tat in Fallujah to be major combat ops (I don't), the major combat ops have been over.  Now it is more just small guerilla tactics, nowhere near what would be described as "major".

I just love it when people make such statements as the one that.  I heard some Iraqi woman asking where is all the money, jobs, etc that the US promised?  I never heard us promise any such nonsense.  If I could have, I would challenge her to show where that "promise" came from.


dago

wow dago you are spinning like a top

[Dago]

strk

Easy to drop and insult and run, now maybe you could explain, offer counterpoint and show me wrong?

If you are capable that is.


dago

[strk]

Originally posted by Eagler
sorry for each loss of life but I think the average soldier accepts it better than the hand wringers back at home as unlike many of them, he believes he is doing the right thing for his country and proud to do it

When you are in that situation you are fighting for the integrity of your unit and your brothers who are in it.  

Combat deaths are very bad for morale.  Ever heard of the Ghurka warrior? They are fierce, skilled warriors and fight with a curved knife that must draw blood each time it is unsheathed.  

The Ghurka will attack a camp at night, and slit the throat of every other man.

[10Bears]

LOL... fess up..

ldsurfer53 (2 posts)         Thu Apr-29-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
   
15. Combat Casualty Reports?   

   

I had read somewhere that a wounded soldier that dies during a medevac isn't included as a combat causality in the official reports. Is this true? Anyone have more details if so?

Reason I'm asking is that I'm involved with a UBB group for a WWII era combat flight sim/game that is dominated by RW neo types. There are just a few of us, and I proudly say, LIBERALS and debunking all the RW spin there is a daunting task. Please help me here.

Yes I'm new, been lurking for many, many months.

who it it???!!!! now who is oldsurfer? lol
saw this on democratic underground

[strk]

Originally posted by Dago
strk

Easy to drop and insult and run, now maybe you could explain, offer counterpoint and show me wrong?

If you are capable that is.


dago

ok sure.  you dont have to get so snarky about it.

remember when Cheney said "They will welcome us with open arms" - like the allies in France they would throw flowers at our feet.  Guess what?  they are throwing grenades.  

And weren't we supposed to be down to 30k troops at the end of last summer?  Bremer had to disband the army and that left no power structure to keep control.  What we have seen since then is the radical mullahs gaining importance and power as the iraqi youth come to see the US as invaders in a religious war.  Ever hear of the Crusades?

Compare that to the US south, we got our tulips kicked by the yankees in 1865 and we still ***** about it.  Why should we expect the Iraqis to accept their invaders any easier?


And yeah, I think that the fighting in Fallujah and Najaf is major combat operations.  WHat they are doing is combined artillery, air strike and troop movements in a population center of a foreign country.  Does'nt sound like a little "tit for tat" to me.  Its not an exercise.  Do you think it is some kind of freakin game?  Do the deaths have to reach a certain number before they are considered "major" combat ops?  Lets plop your bellybutton in the middle of Fallujah and you can come back and tell me if you were in "major" combat or not.  Maybe then you will see why the distinction doesnt really mean too much.

Bush was over eager to proclaim victory and have his photo op.  You seem a little over eager to defend him.  spin spin spin!

[stratman]

Originally posted by strk




And yeah, I think that the fighting in Fallujah and Najaf is major combat operations.  WHat they are doing is combined artillery, air strike and troop movements in a population center of a foreign country.  Does'nt sound like a little "tit for tat" to me.  Its not an exercise.  Do you think it is some kind of freakin game?  Do the deaths have to reach a certain number before they are considered "major" combat ops?  Lets plop your bellybutton in the middle of Fallujah and you can come back and tell me if you were in "major" combat or not.  Maybe then you will see why the distinction doesnt really mean too much.

B

Yeppers sounds like a war to me !
And I can only assume that If you could ask the Marines on the ground there they would tell ya its a war too!

[strk]

Originally posted by stratman
Yeppers sounds like a war to me !
And I can only assume that If you could ask the Marines on the ground there they would tell ya its a war too!

amen

and God bless the United States Marine Corps

[RedTop]

Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Was it not said that the US would bring 'peace and prosperity' to Iraqi??


dude

Maybe in Iraq your own AK47 (the peace) and 20.00 a month (prosperity) ?

 Noone promised em JOBS ...Just peace...and with peace will come prosperity.

I would guess though that in that part of the world...My former statment would be closer to correct

[Fishu]

Originally posted by RedTop
Maybe in Iraq your own AK47 (the peace) and 20.00 a month (prosperity) ?

 Noone promised em JOBS ...Just peace...and with peace will come prosperity.

I would guess though that in that part of the world...My former statment would be closer to correct

Actually it's otherway around.

Jobless people are restless people, no peace until they have something to do.
Then comes peace when most of the people are able to plan the future.
THEN comes prosperity.

When a person is unsure of his future, he is not peaceful