N1K whine!

[moot]

Beetle, look north...

[Furious]

Originally posted by beet1e
...Furious/Pyro - I've tried that .target command. I can't get it to work. I've checked HELP but am no wiser. A few pointers please?

type ".target xxx", where xxx equals the desired distance to the target in yards.  Be sure to be heading north, as that is where the target will appear.  Use ".target 0", to turn it off.

[kj714]

Originally posted by Furious
type ".target xxx", where xxx equals the desired distance to the target in yards.  Be sure to be heading north, as that is where the target will appear.  Use ".target 0", to turn it off.

And don't forget to look behind you.

[flyingaround]

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
The Chog can climb with the NIK? Can turn with the NIK?
Its not fast in comparison, its guns are very effective but no more so than the NIKs. It cant turn worth SQUAT compared to the NIK....  So can someone PLEASE clue me in here???

Chog has much better roll, speed and guns.  Niki can out turn it, and out climb.  

Bottom line it's how you fly it.  I also agree that a chog should eat a niki for lunch, and I AM a niki dweeb (not as good as say taki, but maintained 5 to 1 k/d last tour in one).  When ftn a chog, i try to get them to blow their energy for me, and i'll eat 'em for lunch.  IF they keep their E, they will eventually get you.  I was bingo fuel/ammo (had a bit o' both) and a chog was b/z me all the way home.  I couldn't land 'cause he wanted me BAD, and would vulch me.  He prob. made 26 passes on me.  Yes I avoided 25 but the 26th he got me.  I couldn't take the fight to him, he'd just extend.  As long as you are VERY aware of a niki's E state, they pretty ezy kills imho.

It's the pilot not the plane.  

-Lute  III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers

[Charon]

But by the same token, surely a high velocity single shot rifle does not need dispersion, and therefore it can be expected to be accurate to 1000/2000yds. A totally different concept from automatic fire from a plane with bendy wings.

Just how bendy do you think the wings are, and just how much force do you think these weapons put on wings designed to support a five-ton aircraft through 8g maneuvers? The issue apparently came up early in Spitfire development where you had somewhat of an extreme combination of wing design and high-energy cannon, but that was addressed [I think I'm even reaching for this one, and confusing aileron reversal and jamming issues]. Unlike modern airliners, flex was not a design goal. You qualify with a M2 .50 at 800 yards, on automatic in under 12 rounds. The dispersion, even with "arm" stabilization is not significant. If it were, it would never have been used as long as it was as an anti-APC type weapon where those will be somewhat common engagement ranges. You do not kill an APC at 800 yards with one or two hits, you need to chew the hell out of it, killing the vehicle and hopefully most of the people in it.

An issue can be made against the longer than historical convergence in AH. At greater distances you would have to aim to the right or to the left on a wing mounted aircraft and hope to hit with one bank of guns. There are stories of pilots who adjusted at both shorter- and greater-than convergence ranges to do this (generally in exceptional situations). However, if you do set convergence for 600 yards or 800 yards you should be able to put most of the rounds in a fairly useful concentration (though admittedly more than at 300 yards or so).

But, as Kweassa noted the overall results are going to be less (less accuracy, smaller target, less damage) than at closer ranges. Particularly with pilots that received minimal gunnery training. So, you adjust for the least common denominator.

As I've stated in the past, and Kweassa noted here, limiting convergence to a historically common 300 yards or so would likely eliminate many of the issues. There would still be some due to the lack of fear, panic, adrenaline, heat or cold, fatigue, buffeting and general keeping the RL plane in the air factors, but, IMO long distance kills are not that much of an issue even now, with just gentle evasives.

Charon

[SirLoin]

The CHOG is perked cause it's a CV based plane with 4 Hispanos..If the NIKI had a tailhook it would also be perked..Just my opinion.

[SlapShot]

As for the shot Bulz recalls - 873yds - could have been a head shot. But it's not as if those lucky fluke shots are occurring once in a blue moon. It happens time after time after time. And some of the guys who make those shots have perfected it. No, for my money it happens too often for it to be "lucky head shots". Besides which, would a cannon round fly 800yds, against air resistance, catch up to a target egressing at 400mph and still have sufficient kinetic energy to cause damage to the target? I don't have much knowledge of ballistics, but I do recall the discussions that took place when WB adopted a new gunnery model about 5 years ago. I was left in no doubt that the gunnery revisions were a step in the right direction. Basically, 600/800 yard shots became a thing of the past. The new order was to close to max 300 or 100-200 for planes armed with cannon. 500 yard shots simply wouldn't work any more, and the indications are that AH2 will go the same way.

"time after time after time" ... I smell an embelishment alert coming on.

Too broad of a statement with nothing really to back it up. With over 500+ people online, yes, there will be a certain percentage (very very small) that will get these shots. I have putting some serious time in the P-38. With center-line guns (20MM and .50 cal), I have yet to achieve these 1.0+ kills. I have gotten pings at the distance, but no kills. With 580 kills in the P-38 last tour, not one was over 800+ yards and very few at that distance too.

"would a cannon round fly 800yds, against air resistance, catch up to a target egressing at 400mph"

Yes it would. Remember, the shooter is not stationary, so the total egress speed would not be 400 mph, unless it was a 262 zooming past a Spit V.

All this nashing of the teeth and discussion of the "long shot" only leads me to believe that most have not spent much/any time in AH II. The AH II gunnery will surprise most ... if it remains as it is now ... guaranteed !!!

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by beet1e
Furious/Pyro - I've tried that .target command. I can't get it to work. I've checked HELP but am no wiser. A few pointers please?

It's not available at 30 thousand feet ...

[Morpheus]

lol

[beet1e]

Slap - Hehe, I don't know where you get the idea I fly at 30,000ft. (No vulching opportunities up there!) The last time I was at 30K was returning home from France on Monday as a passenger! An F4U would run out of fuel by the time it got to 30K. Well, almost. I think such suggestions belong in the "Beet1e is a runner" file. When I pointed out to you that the planes I'm most likely to encounter (P51/LA7) are faster than my mount and that running would not be an option, you said it's not about the facts - it was about my "style". All smacks of one thing - "don't blind me with the facts, I know what I'm talking about". Nothing to do with facts, just slapshot believing what he wants to believe! And the joke is that I'm the one accused of smoke and mirrors! LOL Oh yeah - don't confuse the Z part of a B&Z with "running". Of course I could be wrong. If I am, I look forward to seeing the film that proves it.

I've been shot up plenty of times from 700/800 yards. I should start collecting the films to post.

OK so it's being argued here that it is well within the realms of possibility to get a hit from 1000 or even 2000 yards. But whoever said that is comparing apples with oranges by making a comparison with WW2 warplane armaments. Sure a marksman/sniper with a high velocity rifle carefully aiming from a ground position and using the latest state of the art electronic gun sight may well be able to manage a 2000 yard shot. But that's not how it was for WW2 warplanes. For several reasons.

• The WW2 weaponry was... WW2. No fancy electronic gunsights back then. All the pilot had was a simple gunsight on or near his front windscreen - that was it.
• The pilots of WW2 often had little or no training in shooting. Some had had no practice at all.
• The weapons were automatic belt fed guns - not designed for single shot precision.
• Both friendly and con were being buffeted around the sky by turbulence. Dispersion was designed in to improve the chances of hits.

In short, it's one thing to get a single shot on target at a range of 2000 yards from a stable ground position with the aid of a technologically advanced electronic sight. And quite another matter to cause consistent catastrophic damage at as little as 800 yards because of firing from a moving target at another moving target using WW2 weapons that were designed to spread their load over a sizeable area at something like 200 yards.

By the way, one of the guys I talk to has served in Iraq. I was curious to know more about the gunsights in use. Well guess what? He couldn't tell me. It's classified. All he was able to say was to confirm that the sights used are electrically powered. From that, plus the fact that the rest was classified, I could tell those sights could even make a marksman out of a gun dweeb like me.

[koda76]

With the 8 kills did get pinged at all?...he might have sent the cannon round that put you over the top.......now if you had no pings at all I would call that strange, like whats been happening to me since the tour started over...I can light someone up big time, I get one MG round and my wing falls off, or it takes out my engine.....seemed better last knight, but that is no way to start a tour.

[Charon]

Can you read?

An M2 is a WW2 era (actually WW1 era) machine gun. You qualify using open Iron sights. I have qualified with it, on automatic, at those ranges using open sights. It is the same basic weapon used on all WW2 US fighters (but about 5 percent more velocity). You use the weapon to kill both point and area targets at distances of up to and even beyond 800 yards. The "great" dispersion is a handful of yards.

Charon

[Charon]

Both friendly and con were being buffeted around the sky by turbulence. Dispersion was designed in to improve the chances of hits.

Some pilots and commands tried this - USING CONVERGENCE SETTINGS. But, the general rule seems to have been to set the guns for a solid convergence in a tight box at a fixed distance.

The weapons were automatic belt fed guns - not designed for single shot precision.

Some were, such as the M2 which in the ground mount version can be set to single shot. You just turn a catch between the spade grips. It was used as a sniper rifle with this setting and as a general purpose machine gun otherwise. Most weapons are machined to fairly tight tolerences, or else the tend to become rather dangerous to the operators.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn  last night?

Charon

[SlapShot]

"Slap - Hehe, I don't know where you get the idea I fly at 30,000ft. (No vulching opportunities up there!) The last time I was at 30K was returning home from France on Monday as a passenger! An F4U would run out of fuel by the time it got to 30K. Well, almost. I think such suggestions belong in the "Beet1e is a runner" file. When I pointed out to you that the planes I'm most likely to encounter (P51/LA7) are faster than my mount and that running would not be an option, you said it's not about the facts - it was about my "style". All smacks of one thing - "don't blind me with the facts, I know what I'm talking about". Nothing to do with facts, just slapshot believing what he wants to believe!  And the joke is that I'm the one accused of smoke and mirrors! LOL Oh yeah - don't confuse the Z part of a B&Z with "running". Of course I could be wrong. If I am, I look forward to seeing the film that proves it."

.... I promise Beet, I only use 440 stainless, so no need to worry about infection. Shall we use my pliers or yours ?

We must wing together some night ... me, you, and Mars ... real soon !!!

[beet1e]

ROFL Slapshot! Yah bastage! I wish I knew a few more Big Blue jokes.

I watched part of your film the other day - you and Morph and xtremeJ. What language do you guys speak on voxx? The only one I could understand was Morph.

I need AH2 practice. All I ever seem to see in AH1 these days is small maps. So I haven't played AH1 for a week. I should be a soft target.