Total Frustration

[Happy1]

If this sounds like a gripe, it is.  I believe that 50% of the battle of any Air Combat game is good scaling of one's stick, the other 50%
is ur learning curve.  I scaled my stick in such a way that I believ-
ed would hold up in most arenas, & to a certain degree it did & I
enjoyed the game immensely.

Then 1 comes across an Arena where the slightest move, no mat-
ter how small BLACKS U OUT, thereby causing u to become ex-
tremely VULNERABLE as u r making the tiniest of moves, in the
meantime the enemy planes are zooming all arnd u getting hits
on ur plane  

I try NOT to pull more than 3Gs so as NOT to BLACK OUT & I still
BLACK OUT, does any1 know HOW to SCALE ur stick, & is willing
to SHARE this info with us as I'm sure there are others in the same fix as I find myself in.

I tried everything in my scaling, to wit 100 across in Roll, Pitch &
Yaw with zero in deadband & damper, tried dozens of different permutations including the default posted by HTC, & still am having problems    

Today I fought against a 38 & an F4F in an F6F, & although it was a good fight I was able to only smoke the F4F b4 I was shot dwn due to these constant blackouts, whereas the other aircraft seemed to fly fast circles arnd me...this is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING  

Happy1   <------definitely venting my displeasure & ire

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Happy1
If this sounds like a gripe, it is.  I believe that 50% of the battle of any Air Combat game is good scaling of one's stick, the other 50%
is ur learning curve.  I scaled my stick in such a way that I believ-
ed would hold up in most arenas, & to a certain degree it did & I
enjoyed the game immensely.

I would say that it is about 90%  BFM/ACM with 5% stick scaling and last 5% luck ( luck factor may vary a few percent

Then 1 comes across an Arena where the slightest move, no mat-
ter how small BLACKS U OUT, thereby causing u to become ex-
tremely VULNERABLE as u r making the tiniest of moves, in the
meantime the enemy planes are zooming all arnd u getting hits
on ur plane  

What arena might this be? was it special events? or  a particular map?

I try NOT to pull more than 3Gs so as NOT to BLACK OUT & I still
BLACK OUT, does any1 know HOW to SCALE ur stick, & is willing
to SHARE this info with us as I'm sure there are others in the same fix as I find myself in.

In al my experiences anything under say about 5.5 to 5 G's you would never experience a black-out maybe a little tunneling effect  closer to the 5G or above mark but no complete blackout.

edited: I meant to say any speed under maximum sustained turn speed you shouldn't blackout under 5g's or so, if you have alot of speed you may blackout  with less than 5 G's if you pulled / turned hard

I tried everything in my scaling, to wit 100 across in Roll, Pitch &
Yaw with zero in deadband & damper,

I myself use basically  100% across top of all axis Pitch/Roll/Yaw,Rudder Throttle everything with very little dampening & deadband just to control any stick spiking, my setup requires a light touch though and is very sensitive, no hamfist or yanking for this set up.

You may want to delete your stick.cfg file in the settings of the AH and completely recal your stick thru out the Windows and AH program, and posibly check to see if any IRQs have changed in your system, especially if you have a USB stick.  just some ideas  may work may not...Good Luck Happy!:)

[snake339]

what stick, maybe someone has the same can send u thier stick.cfg file

[Max]

Happy, I feel your pain...been there.

Let's begin with Snake's question: what equipment are you using? Before booting up AH, do you check calibration is Windows control panles > gaming devices?

Personally I haven't found much deviation in stick response from one arena to the next. One PLANE to the NEXT is a different ball of wax. A scaling profile which may feel stiff flying a Typhoon, may seem a bit loose in a Yak. Unfortunately AH doesn't allow saved stick scale profiles for different planes. I'd suggest you limit your rides to one or two planes for a month. Do a search for Ack Ack's P-38 stick.cfg and try that one on for starters. I find it to have a minimal nose bounce effect for just about any plane out there. If that's still to prone to black/red-outs...I can send you one even more tailored fof hamfists...like me

Keep us posted...we'll get ya straightened out.

DmdMax

[MaddogJoe]

goto the Mafia site http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/AcesHigh.htm and click on Joystick set-up. We have a explaination on how to set up your stick there. Its pretty strait forward and easy to understand, but if you have questions just ask.

The lower you set the sliders, the slower the stick responds to movement of your stick. The dead bands are to have a dead spot in the "centered" area of your stick. In most cases the older your stick the higher you will have to slide it up. if your stick doesn't stand strait up and stedy, you need to increase the dea band area.

The "damping" slider slowes everything down. say you yank the stick thru half it throw then say "oops, too hard" you can ease off, and the action transmitted to the plane will not be so aggressive.

It\s hard to explain here, but if you read the page and do small adjustments its not as tuff as you think. Letting us know what stick you are using, you could delete the stick.cfg file in the settings folder, and replacing it with one someone send you with the same type of stick could give you a great starting place.

don't give up, stick it out !

[Ghosth]

If none of the above work, ,do it the old fashioned way. Contact a trainer.

billj69@btinet.net

For most sticks setting input to 100% across the board is the quickest route to frustration & madness I know.

For Roll try an aggressive curve, slider 1 at 0, slider 2 @ 1/4, #3 @ half way up.
Now step the rest of the way gradually
to end at the top right.

For pitch do the opposite.
First 5 sliders step up only 1/4 inch at a time.  The last 5 step steeply up to top right.

The idea being that you want your roll to be as reactive as possible while still controlable.

Where your pitch is giving your problems. Any twitch of your stick is givving you the same responce as if it was pulled back all the way.

So we do a nice slow step up, carefully graduated responce. But, just in case, we make sure you end up with 100% at the top right.

So if you really DID mean to bury that stick, you can still get there. You just have to pull it all the way back.

[WldThing]

Originally posted by Happy1

I tried everything in my scaling, to wit 100 across in Roll, Pitch &
Yaw with zero in deadband & damper, tried dozens of different permutations including the default posted by HTC, & still am having problems    
 

Thats my stick settings!  

Yes they cause you to black out,  etc...   But what ya gotta remember is that there is little you can do about the blackouts,  especially in a fight.  Your pulling moves to counter your opponents moves,  different every match..  I certainly black out ALOT during my fights,  but with time i became adapt to people's flying patterns that i dont have to see to know where they will eventually "reappear" ...   Thats the main key -  Adjustment..

[Innominate]

Stick settings are more to deal with flaws in your joystick(small spikes, points where the reading is unstable, non-exact centering) than for actually flying.

While you can use dampening and steep curves to help even out hamfisted flying, it's better to learn to control with some precision.

If you're blacking out from small movements and it's not a case of hamfisted flying, you might have a calibration problem or just a broken joystick  (Watch the controls in the joystick setup window, make sure the movement corresponds correctly with your stick movements)

[Rolex]

Every model of stick has different 'feel' to it and smoothness during stick travel is probably the most important consideration.

I have to say, Ghosth, that trying to explain slider settings using 1/4" measurements can lead to a lot of confusion. You have to know the resolution and monitor size of the person first...

I would suggest that starting with some fixed point on the left of the scaling window and then using increments of slider height is a more accurate way to describe slider positions on vox or in text.

[Ghosth]

Rolex yes its difficult, good point.

Ussually when I'm not being lazy I post a screen shot showing what I'm describing.
However this week i've been unable to access the site where I host those goodies.

[Happy1]

Greetings every1     just ret'd from a business trip & was much  gratified to have rec'd such helpful responses from all of u, all of the info given me, ur suggestions, recommendations & thoughts
are sincerely appreciated & definitely shall be tested, although
I must admit that I was quick to delete my stick.cfg file (recom-
mendations given me) & I DID notice a difference ... hooray.

Now to answer some of ur questions:  TO:

TequilaChaser:  the incident transpired in H2H, SolomonsB Map.  I do believe that u r correct in that I may've exceeded the "maxi-
mum sustained turn speed" in my haste & greed to blast the nme
by pulling/turning hard, I never seem to get enough speed to
chase the cons dwn 4 a good shot ... is it poor E Management??
I try to extend to gain speed b4 climbing.

Never heard or knew about deleting stick.cfg until today & I acted on ur advice.

Snake339:  my stick is Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D Pro, my nose started porpoising & my plane weaves frm side to side.

DMax: as a rule, once I calibrate stick in Windows, I don't check on
it until I develope probs w/it. I searched/found AKAK's stick.cfg, it
helped me a lot, then I deleted it hoping I'll get better responses.

I'm also a wee bit hamfisted & YES, I would appreciate ur sending me ur stick.cfg 4 'hamfisted people ' like us...thx DMax  

Maddog Joe:  thx 4 the info & website, gd educational & informa-
tive nuggets of wisdom, shall refer to it often. NP on quitting I
hang on w/pitbull tenacity.

Ghosth: appreciate ur kind instructions.

Wldthing    Yep... those are ur stick settings ... don't know what
happened that the stick went awry... had BIG probs  

Innominate & Rolex: ur inputs are appreciated.

Thx every1 4 ur generous assistance in my time of frustration &
need.

Gratefully,

Happy1  

[Max]

Happy...you need to attend the Con in Grapevine next September. Not only can you get one on one help, you can also buy us all a round of tasty adult beverages  Well, except for Ghosth who drinks cherry Kool Aid.

DmdMax

[WldThing]

I shall try to attend that Con...  It would be vary damn fun!

[RTR]

Hi Happy, thought you had gotten rid of the logitech stick. (I wish I had never recommended it way back when).

If you are having nose bounce and yaw control problems make sure you have calibrated in windows and the game as well.

As a matter of fact, by calibrating in windows you can get a quick check to see if your stick is spiking at all. When you calibrate it all the axis should show up on the bar graph as smooth. If you are seeing spikes or short travel there, it may be a hardware problem. (IE the stick is hooped).

Having a smooth stick will go along way to improving your enjoyment of the game.

As far as blacking out goes, well...it's a hazard of flying your ride to its full potential. I spend quite a bit of time "in the tunnel" myself. The trick is, as mentioned before, to know where your opponent will (should ) be.

If you find yourself pulling so hard that you are totally blacking out continuosly, maybe you should look at how you are enaging.
If you are unable to turn with your intended victim (usually when he is in a better turning A/C or is considerably lighter than you), fly the angles.  Lead turns , lag turns (never fly them flat), Keep your speed up, if he turns better than you , you do not want to be slower. Get the fight more into the verticals.

Geometry can be a wondrous thing

If you see me in the MA, TA or CT, feel free to give me a shout.
I make a pretty good target

Cheers Happy,
RTR

[Happy1]

 Greetings RTR .... long time since I've corresponded w/u... sure
is gd 2 hear from u     Don't worry abt recommending Logitech
sticks, u meant well & I harbor no umbrage twds folks trying to help me past or present  

I did buy a Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner, for I believe $38.00
which I found 2b ROCK steady, in the meantime I contacted Logitech re. my warranty & was sent a new Wingman Extreme
Digital 3d Pro which I deposited in my closet.

I found TM Top Gun Afterburner 2b a most steady, easy to use,
easy to program solid product with NO PORPOISING or WEAVING
needless to say, I had great fun, & had tunnel vision in my wildest
chases/fights w/NO BLACKOUTS, then just recently I tried to push
my stick to extremes by pulling back & up steeply;  I heard a sharp crack & the stk went limp to the left

That's when I started using the Logitech stk, whilst looking  for a
place to repair the stk ... COMPUSA want $50-65.00, other shops
from $50.00 on up.  Poor business sense to invest up to $65.00
for a stk costing $38.00 all negative cash flow of $103 ... thereby
I've 2 make do w/what I have..Wingman Extreme 3d Pro.

I started to calibrate in Windows & AH, plus deleting the stick.cfg
prior to gaming, however, after a period of time, I notice that my
stick.cfg (OLD) takes over w/all the irritating nuances, necessita-
ting my logoff frm AH to remove the old stk.cfg, put in correct stk.cfg & to get back to where I was.  

What causes that, how can I prevent this frm happening???

Thx once again 4 ur assists & advice.

Cheers,

Happy1