Irony in Iraq?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Thrawn
What are you implying is being exaggerated Eagler?

the entire thing - to make the good the US has done and is doing in sandsville look bad

yep, what some did was out of line, they will be dealt with - now pls move on - but you can't as this is something that makes the US look bad so that is good for you and others here

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Boroda
.

I just wonder - does anyone still believe in American "good intentions" in Iraq?

Yea. I DO.
 For one thing This is the exeption rather then the norm yet it is spoken of as if all the thousands of prisoners were being treated in this manner. They are not.
Talk about propaganda

Yet these things are mild and almost childsplay in comparison to what is done to our people when captured by them.
But I guess that is ok right?

In every war atrocities are committed by all sides.And yes we had some of our soldiers do some not so nice things in WWII also. As did the Brits, Germans, Russians etc etc etc
 So while this was untasteful to say the least. It is not entirely without precident.

For another thing it was pointed out that had Saddam been in power any protest against a current authority would have been met with swift and brutal punishment and often not nearly as quick and merciful as a bullet in the head

so yes I beleive we do have good intentions.
These people are now free. Free to speak out against what they dont like. Free to stand up and say publically and loudly they do not like who is in charge. And free to say they do not want us there any longer. OR any of a billion other things they may want ot say be they right or wrong they are free to do so.
How many of those freedoms were allowed under Saddam?

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by txmx
Shoot i stepped off the bus at reseption station at Ft Leornard wood Mo and a drill Sgt ask me where is was from.
LOL I said well man Im from Colorado.
The next thing I know I am picking myself up off the pavment.

And another time on a forced road march I was not moving as fast as the DS thought I should have been.
Got a jump boot square in the crack of my butt cracking my tail bone.

Had my face slapped a couple of times too.
This you see was back in the day when they could and would knock the crap out of ya in the army.

Don't think they can get away with it now but my point is was I tortured?

LOL the funny part is after basic graduation the DS that broke my tail bone took me out and got me drunk.

He said he felt bad about it and that he was just trying to motivate me LOL HE DID .

How caveman-ish.  I think we should put together a war crimes tribunal to condemn the actions of basic instructors everywhere.

Hell, I could probably get a serious chunk of money out of it too - I didnt break a tail bone, but I had my nose bloodied in the middle of a couple humps by a large black gentleman wearing duece gear and five stripes on two occassions!

I want a presidential apology!

(PS:  Regardless of what you hear these days - instructors still use 'physical motivation' as necessary.  And I do think its necessary on occassion.  Sometimes its the only thing some of the young lads recognize to mean 'Im in charge.')

[txmx]

Well said Eagler The wrongs commited  are being delt with .
But my goddness If having a hood put over your head and having to stand around neekid is the worst we did !

As far as torture goes it was pretty lite.
In fact i would not even call It torture but more degridation and humiliation .

Do some reearch on the treatment of americans by the japanese in WW2 .
Now there was torture!

Now please do not get me wrong on this.
These young soldiers where very wrong and should be and are being punished for there stupid actions.

But i think the world press has got ahold of a juicy bone that they are going to chew on for a very long time.

[txmx]

Originally posted by Saurdaukar
How caveman-ish.  I think we should put together a war crimes tribunal to condemn the actions of basic instructors everywhere.

Hell, I could probably get a serious chunk of money out of it too - I didnt break a tail bone, but I had my nose bloodied in the middle of a couple humps by a large black gentleman wearing duece gear and five stripes on two occassions!

I want a presidential apology!

(PS:  Regardless of what you hear these days - instructors still use 'physical motivation' as necessary.  And I do think its necessary on occassion.  Sometimes its the only thing some of the young lads recognize to mean 'Im in charge.')

Oh dont get me wrong partner.
I deserved every bit of "extra" motivation I got.

When I got to basic I thought I was the c ock of the walk LOL.
I quickly found out i was not.

If I ever saw Drill SGT Tally again And Drill SGT fernadez I would buy them dinner and thank them for kickin my butt!

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Eagler
the entire thing - to make the good the US has done and is doing in sandsville look bad

Well I guess the US government (including the Bush administration) and military are in on the plot as well.

yep, what some did was out of line, they will be dealt with

You don't know that, you are hoping that.  There are still to many questions regarding the military intelligence contractors and they roll they played, as well as those had authority over them.

Originally posted by txmx
But my goddness If having a hood put over your head and having to stand around neekid is the worst we did !

It isn't.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Toad
You'll figure it out eventually. You're a sharp guy.

I guess not that sharp, because I can't see anything but an incomplete comparison as the basis for ridicule, unless you were sodomized with a broomstick during your winter survival training.

[strk]

Originally posted by muckmaw
If that's what you call torture, I guess I was worried about the Red Menace all those years for nothing!

From the pictures and details I've gotten, that's what we call "Fraternity Hazing".

Don't believe the hype!

RW talking Point Alert!

Rush-Hannity-O'Reilly - frat prank comparison.  Dont you know that frat boys volunteer for it?? big difference.

[Toad]

Oh, you realize my point, I think.

It's just that you wish to make it into more than I said. IMO, of course.

Like all these incredibly important, vital, red hot issues of the minute on the news channels, let's just let it play out a bit until there's a better picture of what did and did not happen.

Then there might be a basis for further discussion.

Or it may turn out to be another tempest in a teapot that serves to get people to tune in to CNN for the very latest in critical updates.

[VOR]

Mr. Toad, you're a realist, aren't you?

[Gixer]

Originally posted by BigGun
Was watching on the news a group of protestors in Iraq, protesting the US being there. It just struck me as odd, if US wasn't there they would never be able to protest anything without a bullet in the head. Ironic.

Funny as I recall plenty of protesters in Iraq prior to the invasion some in a big red london bus who never received a bullet in the head.

However plenty of press seem to of died to US bullets since the Invasion. Hear two more were killed driving in their car the other day even though they had PRESS written all over it in big flourecent letters.



...-Gixer

[Toad]

Originally posted by Gixer
Hear two more were killed driving in their car the other day even though they had PRESS written all over it in big flourecent letters.


...-Gixer

Got any real details on it? Or are you just absolutely sure that no  one would ever pack a car with explosives, write PRESS all over it in big letters and then use it to car bomb something?

[Cobra412]

Yeah I think Saddam would have allowed his people to protest just prior to going to war.  Looks good for them don't ya think?  What about the fact he let how many prisoners he had been keeping go right prior to the war?  I'm sure he'd been planning on doing that all along right?

If you think a bunch of stupid guard troops who acted like college students are what the rest of the military are about your sadly mistaken.  They hazed those prisoners which isn't right at all but folks make it out to being more than it is.  They do deserve to be punished for their actions but give me a break on calling it torture.

If we wanna go into the whole civilians being killed in Iraq how about what Iraqis are doing to their own right now?  How many have been killed by their own since the start of the war/liberation?  If they cared so damn much about peace and wanting civil rights then maybe they'd linch the militias that are supposedly fighting for them but yet in the same respect killing them on a daily basis.  It's funny how so many wanna stand up and cry wolf against the US while their own people(militias) don't care if they (Iraqis) get caught up in the crossfire.  Ofcourse if it's American bullets that kill innocent civilians it's wrong but if Iraqi militias do it it's because the Americans started it and they (militia)were protecting Iraq from the US invaders.

It's rather amusing how the tides turn.  In the beginning many Iraqis were glad Saddam was gone and wanted to start over again with rights as a human being.  As time has passed they now seem to want their old regime back and get rid of the invaders that they once greeted with open arms.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Gixer
Hear two more were killed driving in their car the other day even though they had PRESS written all over it in big flourecent letters.

I haven't heard it mentioned anywhere that that incident involved the US military.

"Two foreign journalists killed in Iraq
Last Updated Fri, 07 May 2004 17:29:51


BAGHDAD - Two foreign journalists were killed Friday in a drive-by shooting near Baghdad.

Polish journalist Waldemar Milewicz in 1999 (AP photo)  
A Polish and an Algerian journalist died, while another Pole was injured in the attack, about 30 kilometres south of the capital.

All of the journalists reportedly worked for the Polish television station TVP.

The dead have been identified as television correspondent Waldemar Milewicz and producer Mounir Bouamrane.

Polish cameraman Jerzy Ernst was wounded in the arm and is in a U.S. hospital in Baghdad.

A police spokesperson had no further details about the attack."


http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/07/world/iraq_journalists040507

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Cobra412
They hazed those prisoners which isn't right at all but folks make it out to being more than it is.  They do deserve to be punished for their actions but give me a break on calling it torture.

Bull****.  Hazing is an initiation ritual performed on people who decide to opt into an orginisation.  These prisoner had no such choice.  

They were beaten and sodomised with a broomstick.  That is torture.