Irony in Iraq?

[Cobra412]

I hadn't heard of the other incident your referring to so FU.  If your so damn good why don't you go police the the world so we don't have to.  Either way I don't condone what they have done.  The reports I saw were about them being undressed in front of other prisoners and stacked on top of each other.  You can get off your high horse now.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Thrawn

They were beaten and sodomised with a broomstick.  That is torture.

Been real busy, must have missed this.

Link?

[-dead-]

Taguba report

6. (S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:

a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;

f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and noodle to simulate electric torture;

i. (S) Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

and

8. (U) In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses (ANNEX 26):

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

[Toad]

Now which of those do you consider "torture"?

Which of these do you consider "standard operating procedure" for the US Armed Forces?

Which of these do you consider an act by a single soldier or small group of soldiers that is clearly in violation of the prisoner policy of the US Armed Forces in Iraq?

[Airhead]

I just hope the Arab people in general, and the Iraqi people in perticular, will be as able to shrug this off as "hazing" as some of you here can.

[_Schadenfreude_]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

"But Rumsfeld warned the committee that the worst was yet to come. He said he had looked at the full array of unedited photographs of the situation at Abu Ghraib for the first time Thursday night and found them “hard to believe.”

“There are other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he said. “... It’s going to get a good deal more terrible, I’m afraid.”

Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.” The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys."

[mechanic]

Originally posted by Boroda
Definetly I'll prefer Russian Militia to a concentration camps built by occupants.

Our militia is corrupt, it is ineffective, I don't like that bastards in grey uniforms, but they don't torture people and don't make pictures of tortures for fun, like nazis did.

 

Yes, on your television you were told that Russians are all criminals and eat little babies alive. I love your propaganda.

I saw some of the films about our Militia. I loved the comments. They make you believe that special forces capturing armed criminals is what we have here every time someone gets arrested.

 

You know, I was not surprised when I heard the news about tortures in Iraq. Song Mi, you know...

In Stalin's times we had two times less people in prisons then in 1999... Please stop speaking about things that you don't know.

I just wonder - does anyone still believe in American "good intentions" in Iraq?

Boroda.  why are so many americans so ignorant to their countries propagand and lies. i suppose becuase tey havnt had hundreds of years of good evolution to become intelligent.
the average IQ must be alot lower than Russia or UK

[00Buck]

Folks, we are not right simply because we are Americans. We are right based on what we do.

Many of the acts against the prisoners are among the most humiliating, insulting acts that can be performed upon someone from that culture. Many of the prisoners in American custody are innocent citizens.

If you can't understand how sexual humiliation is considered a form of torture, perhaps it will help if you imagine these acts performed upon and photographed by foreigners upon your mother, father, sons or daughters.

If you are human, that would infuriate you, and it should.

And if you don't care about the human rights of foreigners, presumably you do care about what the bottom line will be to America, and I can assure you that whatever intelligence and leverage was gained by that treatment of prisoners, will be overshadowed 1,000 times over by the resentment of the Muslim world and the disgust of the world in general.

What Bin Laden wanted was a war of cultures, and America is repeatedly handing him a propoganda bonanza.

[Toad]

I don't think anyone is "shrugging it off".

I hope those responsible are tried and punished to the full extent of the law, commensurate with the damage they have caused to the situation in Iraq.

I think our leadership has correctly expressed our disappointment and outrage against the perpetrators.

OTOH, I don't accept the idea that this is "typical" or "standard" behavior for US forces. Nor do I accept the idea that these things were done "systemically", IE: that this was a standard, ordered-from-above method of dealing with prisoners.

Further, I think that those who attempt to paint it as "typical" or "standard" behavior probably have a different agenda rather than just protesting these acts.

Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.” The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys."
 

Yes, more bad news. However, I'm sure that the people responsible will be punished as I mentioned above.

If anyone wishes to make the case that an army in a similar situation exists or has existed that has/had absolutely no "bad apples" and no disgusting incidences of this kind, feel free to do so.

It's a terrible thing; it's disguting that it happened at all. It's been discovered, action taken, apologies made, restitution discussed and punishment of the guilty will result.

What else do you want?

[SunKing]

Originally posted by BigGun
Was watching on the news a group of protestors in Iraq, protesting the US being there. It just struck me as odd, if US wasn't there they would never be able to protest anything without a bullet in the head. Ironic.

Man isn't that the truth.. kinda sad.

[mechanic]

buck    another intelligent person, not clouded by blind patriotism to his country. i salute anyone who has the brains to think about what human existence really is, not just 'american' existance

[Toad]

Mechanic,

I take issue with that.

In this instance, what do you see as "propaganda" or "lies"? Looks like to me the authorities have been very forthcoming about what happened, have apologized and have promised to punish those responsible.

I haven't seen any US posters here saying this situation was anything but disgraceful.


Please explain.

[mechanic]

Originally posted by Toad
Mechanic,

I take issue with that.

In this instance, what do you see as "propaganda" or "lies"? Looks like to me the authorities have been very forthcoming about what happened, have apologized and have promised to punish those responsible.

I haven't seen any US posters here saying this situation was anything but disgraceful.


Please explain.

ok toad, apologies for the last post of mine.
i believe that the nations os USA and UK are forefront in the detruction of the world.

that is all

i dont think we can believe a word that any of our governments say, ever.
its all a load of crap.

my only objections to this is when you get blind patriots who think their country is the best ever and will always be right and just.
it simply not true
patriotism was essential in days gone by but these days its a waste of time in my opinion.
i believe we should be faithfull to our friends and families and not waste time supporting cuases which do not need our help to continue their destructive ambitions

just my honest opinion

[10Bears]

When Cobra412 was being initiated at his collage, they had to stand around naked with hoods on and masturbate themselves...  

Toad I’m reading your debate here and it’s blowin’ my mind man.. You can’t possibly expect to win this..

[Cobra412]

10Bears pretty amusing comment I must say.  Even though I didn't go to college I atleast know how to spell it.  Maybe next time if your going to make a sarcastic comment you can atleast use a spell checker to keep yourself from looking like your ignorant.