Author Topic: Democrats: Redefine thyself  (Read 1343 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« on: May 07, 2004, 10:04:59 AM »
Halfway down the page, after Bush’s poor polling numbers:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/06/thu/index.html

Meanwhile, Democrats are being advised to run like hell from the liberal label, and instead recast themselves as "progressives," according to a private report by the liberal think tank The Center for American Progress.

The report, based on extensive voter focus groups and a private national poll, found that the right has succeeded in defining Democrats as liberal. And that, apparently, is very bad. It advised a concerted party effort to adopt a new label, "progressive," which, while still poorly defined, "is overwhelmingly associated with positive attributes."

…"The word liberal is associated closely with a well-meaning, admirable, but ultimately weak, naive, and ineffective approach to politics and governance," said the report, which was presented last week to a closed meeting of Senate Democrats.





:rofl :rofl :rofl

Offline ra

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2004, 10:10:01 AM »
That's been true for about 10 years now.  They have to remind themselves every election cycle that they aren't liberals.

Offline AKIron

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2004, 10:16:51 AM »
Maybe they should try "neolib"? You heard it here first. ;)
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline midnight Target

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2004, 10:42:12 AM »
libocon?

Offline Lizking

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2004, 10:49:14 AM »
How about "get a real platform other than hating Bush and don't worry about what they are called"

Offline Dune

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2004, 10:50:27 AM »
Care givers.

Offline capt. apathy

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2004, 11:00:05 AM »
for many of us the only ones who ever deffined us as libral where republicans.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2004, 11:12:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
for many of us the only ones who ever deffined us as libral where republicans.


Can't say that I blame ya for disliking that label.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Gunslinger

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2004, 11:57:07 AM »
Kerry speaking in Mass.  "yes I am a libral"

Kerry speaking to a union:  "no I wouldnt define myself as a libral"

Kerry speaking to the ACLU:  "I tend to lead towards libral issues but wouldn't call myself that"

Kerry speaking to minoritys:  "I would love to be the second black president, but I'm not a libral"

Offline Charon

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2004, 12:23:56 PM »
Quote
How about "get a real platform other than hating Bush and don't worry about what they are called"


The Democrats could use a platform, but it’s not like Bush has just sat around playing middle of the road the past 3 years.

- He has had an activist economic policy with a controversial taxation policy.

- He has had an activist social agenda from abortion to homosexual marriage Constiutional amendments.

- He has had an activist foreign policy centered on unilateral American action including invasion and occupation

- His election was controversial and hardly by a percentage necessary to have a "mandate" of the American people  (half of America apparently hated him even before he became president, I guess)

Right or wrong, with a slim (not a mandate level) majority in Congress he has been able to act on things that a great many people have a difference of opinion on, even a very strong difference of opinion in many cases. Maybe they hate him because he has obviously shown no regard for the viewpoints of half of the electorate with many of his actions and knows that he has the handful percentage majority necessary to ignore their wishes. [and in some cases, like Iraq, helped along by cowardly "vote yes now ***** later" Democrats] If Kerry were president, and we still have a Republican majority in Congress, it will be a BS politics as usual corporate money and organized labor rule type of system, but at least there would be some balance restored.

Charon

FWIW, I think he is a genuine person, its his advisors and his ability to be swayed (even kept out of the loop, apparently) by those advisors that I actually hate.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 12:28:18 PM by Charon »

Offline Lizking

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2004, 12:26:45 PM »
That is the thing, Charon, Bush DOES something, wether or not you agree with it.  From he Dems of the last 20 years, I see lots of "problem definition" and "what I would do in general", but very little action.

The Dems like to define issues, not solve them.

Offline ra

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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2004, 12:34:14 PM »
Quote
- He has had an activist economic policy with a controversial taxation policy.

Which president hasn't?
Quote
- He has had an activist social agenda from abortion to homosexual marriage Constiutional amendments.

Third trimester abortions have been so unpopular that Congress has been trying to outlaw them for years.  Only Clinton's vetoes prevented it.  Clinton was the abortion activist, not Bush.   The anti-gay constitutional amendment talk is a reaction to activist judges who want to impose their definition of marriage onto the entire country.  The framers of the Constitution never imagined that marriage and homosexual could ever go together.
Quote
- He has had an activist foreign policy centered on unilateral American action including invasion and occupation

Even Kerry and H. Clinton backed the invasion.

ra

Offline Charon

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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2004, 12:38:02 PM »
Quote
The Dems like to define issues, not solve them.


I agree, but I have yet to see Bush' policies actually solving anything, and in fact they could end up being far worse than business as usual. If you're an activist you better damm well have your assumptions prove to be correct. It's too early to claim failure, IMO, but I don't like how things are shaping up in Iraq and I wonder if anybody is thinking 10 years down the road as to where the American economy should be instead of the next quarter's report.

The only activist I'm looking for in Washington right now is someone committed to getting all of the special interests out of politics, so that quality leadership, fairness and common sense drive policy. I know... and world peace would be nice too.

Charon
« Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 02:30:09 PM by Charon »

Offline lazs2

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2004, 01:00:16 PM »
liberal fits simply because that is who the democrats pander to... the teachers unions... blacks... gays..  etc.  You can hardly find a lefty cause no matter how bizzare that the democrats don't pander to.

Democrats are to be feared, as is kerry because if they have the power they appoint a liberal judicial system... A liberal supreme court is enough to strike fear in the heart of  any thinking American and kerry, or any democrat is so beholden to the liberals that he will have to make that happen.

kerry isn't gonna go against the boxers and finestiens when they ask for new bans on anything that might be fun.  He is going to help the dems take away more of our 2nd amendment rights.

Further... "progressive" simply means liberal to me.

lazs

Offline Charon

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Democrats: Redefine thyself
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2004, 01:07:00 PM »
My point Ra wasn't to debate each factor, just to state that he has pushed through an agenda that, right or wrong or neither, is objected to by about half the country. It's not a competiton for me, yeah my team is winning, go [Bush/Kerry]! However...

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Which president hasn't?


IMO, we're at a transition point in the world economy where the basic structure of business is changing. We need to seriously look at how to make America viable in the long term. FWIW, Clinton's  easy FTC merger approval went too far, IMO, now there's the whole outsourcing push and too much leverage in the hands of business vs. labor (again, IMO). I seriously want my future children (and myself) to have access to the standard of living my parents enjoyed in the boomer years, without having to be the CEO or major shareholder of a multinational corporation.

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Even Kerry and H. Clinton backed the invasion.


Why wouldn't they? It was the safe political thing to do. Bush was able to set the tone and get the "oppose war=traitor" thing going early on. It's easy to support the war, even if you think its going to be a mess, then pick it to pieces later. Add most of the remaining Democrats in Congress to the list while you're at it. They are tools. But then, IMO the Republicans are, by and large, similar tools with some minor differences overall.

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Third trimester abortions have been so unpopular that Congress has been trying to outlaw them for years. Only Clinton's vetoes prevented it. Clinton was the abortion activist, not Bush. The anti-gay constitutional amendment talk is a reaction to activist judges who want to impose their definition of marriage onto the entire country. The framers of the Constitution never imagined that marriage and homosexual could ever go together.


Clinton didn't promote late term abortions with a "I think we need a new abortion" platform (I personally disagree with late term abortions except in the case of medical necessity). However, late term abortions were generally not common or casual, and the issue is seen generally as being the first strike in a larger plan of attack. As for homosexual marriage, to me that's something for the individual Church to decide. You may certainly disagree, but I think changing the Constitution for something that trivial (and potentially primarily for political reasons) is disagreeable.

Bush is an evangelical christian, and I think a genuine one at that. All fine and good if he makes those feelings absolutely clear. Frankly, he's not been that quiet about it, which is a positive aspect of his character. I really do think he is genuine... I just think it's been easy for others to set his agenda to match theirs.

Charon
« Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 01:55:28 PM by Charon »