Author Topic: fire with fire.. (Read 3148 times)

DoctorYO · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2004, 05:37:54 PM »

The Pony IMO is one of the best all around aircrafts in the main arena.

It has few real weakness and tons of excellent attributes:

Visability
Superior size of gunnery sight compared to cockpit instrumentation making gunnery easy.

Fuel burn - Loiter time.. The Best....

Average to above average gun package.
6 50's converged under 300 have some hitting power..

Ord. Excellent loadouts..

Speed. At prefered alts the mustang is on par with anything... near untouchable.

supercruise and high speed climbs.. one of the best behind 109 and perk planes..

need i say more...

DoctorYO

PS: Graduate to the p47..... evolve...

Widewing · « **Reply #31 on:** May 13, 2004, 06:04:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Yea, but if you want a 6 gun aircraft that can fight... a P-51 on 25% is a hell of a lot more nimble than a P-47 with 6 guns on 25%. Even a P-40 is more nimble than a P-47.

This is true. I fly the P-51B fairly often too. However, the fact remains that most players take far too much fuel in their Mustangs and that greatly effects its agility. While a light P-51 turns a bit better than the P-47, it also suffers more from G induced snap rolls. Mustangs depart with little warning, but the Jug will mush a bit before snapping onto its back, giving you time to ease off a tad. I never take more than 50% gas in a P-51 and rarely that much in a Jug unless the fight is more than a sector away (as they commonly are on some of the bigger maps), in which case I'll load 50% and the belly tank.

Over the past several tours I've been flying aircraft that are not stellar dogfighters, especially on the deck. To be successful in these, you have to be more aware, you have to be more disciplined and you have to use what strengths it has and avoid the weaknesses.

Yesterday, I took up a P-40 for a sortie. I managed a single kill and a pair of assists. It was simply too slow to chase down the runners. One guy in a Spitfire was kind enough to fight, but not good enough to survive. I like the P-40, but it needs some altitude to chase down the La-7s and P-51s.

I like the challenge of flying planes perceived as "clunkers". Sure I could take a better fighter, but it's not as much fun for me.

My regards,

Widewing

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #32 on:** May 13, 2004, 07:07:02 PM »

DoctorYo

Quote

PS: Graduate to the p47..... evolve...

Could you elaborate a bit? It would seem that the Jug with 6 guns is better than most people appear to fly it. Does it have high speed maneuvering flaps,

Do you climb turn in a pinch like the 109s?

Talk to me

Urchin · « **Reply #33 on:** May 13, 2004, 08:36:26 PM »

"I like the P-40, but it needs some altitude to chase down the La-7s and P-51s."

Which is pretty much why anything slower than a Spit 9 or Nik2 is useless, unless it has hizookas. The Hurri 2c is pretty useless, but the 200mm cannon make up for it with the spray and pray kills. Anything that isn't that well armed doesn't have the firepower to kill the runners before they can get away, and of course doesn't have the speed to catch them.

lazs2 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 14, 2004, 09:47:30 AM »

moot... you missed the point. I think that I could do as well as you in any plane you choose. I am not that good but I find that surviving in a fast plane is simple in the extreme.... you will not survive any better or worse in an FM2 is you fly into the fights that I do.

Let me be honest with you... anyone who can't survive in the planes you fly if they pck their fights is not very good... you should try flying against the odds. It is very easy to keep your SA in a fast plane with very little traffic... swoop down and nail planes that are engaged or assleep... I really don't need to practice that.

one tour I took every fighter we have and flew it till I got a kill and landed.. I said I would not go over 5k but never went over 3 or 4k. It was a good way to get my views set but... the fun planes were fun and the unfun planes were a lot less fun.

If you fight me you will either catch me assleep, catch me when my SA is overwhelmed, realize I see you and run away..or... you will get killed. And I'm not that good but when you fur a lot you learn how to fur... simply saying it is easy and beneath you doesn't mean you are so good that you ignore the skill and concentrate on flying the fastest planes in the safest manner and call that the real skillset of the game.

I don't care what you think... you don't fly like me... If you did then it would be so fun you wouldn't even care if a 152 was in the game except to annoy you.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 14, 2004, 09:55:40 AM »

widewing and urchin have it.. you can fly the slow early planes and get kills but you can't chase anyone down and if you run into a bunchj of baddies far from home you are toast cause you can't play king of the sky 152 weenie. You have to fight your way out of a group of planes that most can turn with you, all can outclimb you and all can outrun you.

Yak has been a good comprimise for me lately... cuts down on the frustration... can drag out the ack huggers and not be meat or can furball in a large fur pretty well and still have the speed to get that 1 sector boring flight home with a bunch of cons chasing... if you are in a slow plane they chase a lot further cause they know they will catch you before they are in any danger or... they simply get fixated... If you are in the yak... the little wusses start to realize they will be far from their own ack and the safety of 20 buddies by the time they catch you... if at all.. I sometimes run till they are far enough away from safety and then turn around and whack em and still get turned around in time to discorage his lagging team mates from pursuing.

That is what the game has come to.

lazs

DoctorYO · « **Reply #36 on:** May 14, 2004, 04:19:01 PM »

Fodder what im saying is the p47 is a natrual step in the non dweeby without a complete change of Flying styles battle \ tactics..

I guess I gave a bit of a chastisement but when i see people poddy mouth the p51 as substandard I try to set them straight..

P51 imo should be perked along with all other late war planes with exceptional performance.. This includes LA7, P51, g10 (I love the bird but it should be perked too..) Extreme small perk on nik, spit, and the typhoon.. They have weaknesses but are still pretty beefy...

Aircraft from 1941-late 1943 should be fair game.. I see few problems with those aircraft...

IMO the P51 is damn near the best aircraft in the game.. and while the JUG can try to hang, p47's are meat to a well flown 51..... Hence flying the p47 and evolving will improvve your game.. Fly the D11 for a tour.. (dont dweeb it; fly it with the 8 guns low ammo) and then jump into a stang the following tour.. I got 3 to 1 odds your k/d will improve 1.0-2.0 per death...

try it you'll see.. p51 feels like a sports car, as where the p47 feels like your moms hoopty crown vic... with Battlestar Gallatica mush and all included...

DoctorYo

PS : Glad Lazs is enjoying the yak.. Yaks a great bird and is underated.. if it had the fuel to do some of the deep ops I like to do I would fly it more often..

moot · « **Reply #37 on:** May 14, 2004, 05:52:44 PM »

don't know what you expect to fish except sword rattle with a stupid post like that.
I'm as good as Urchin (I ran into WW and fact is (regardless his RL credentials, they mean nothing in a game) he's not much better than average fighter:fighter) at least, hell, Urchin is who I spent maybe most of my time with practicing. I kick your ACM bellybutton anytime I want, furball or not.
What you can't see is that I learned this game in H2H rooms, on tiny maps, with airspawns 5 seconds from the 8 player furball, and spit5s dominated the planeset, no way to "win" the furball with anything less than another spit5, near constant stall horn and view hat and trigger time in short; that is without doing some extremely long egress passes.

I do say it is easy but beneath me is your words, not mine.
" sometimes run till they are far enough away from safety and then turn around and whack em and still get turned around in time to discorage his lagging team mates from pursuing. "
And you tell me I'm slanted towards running/lwdweebery/etc??? If you can't win the fight you die in it, period.
My best sorties of 20+ in one ammo load I always lost just like that, not running back and forth in the no-man's-land safety cushion.

"king of the sky 152 weenie"... too funny, it's slow as molasses to accelerate and stalls as bad as any other stallbrick anywhere in average furball speeds, and that's how I use it 75% of the time, but you can't hear that because it just doesn't fit with the stupid LW/BnZ/whatever caricature you cherish so much.

**** all, we're off the subject I'm on about: you think there is some kind of slant that puts one (or either) side of the firepower/maneuverability spectrum at an advantage, and the other not, therefore you must have balls flying one and not the other, and that in any situation, but like you said:

"You have to fight your way out of a group of planes that most can turn with you, all can outclimb you and all can outrun you. " You can deny the 152 is just that once <275 and twisting and turning, without a safety margin of altitude under you? wtf do you think I take up some wallowy pigs like an A20 or 110C4 or D11 or B5N or 202 into any furball for?

The plane is as useful as the dogfight conditions make it, and I only have fun flying against the odds, like you said; only you mean something not quite so generic and therefore not so true since it biases on one type of plane,particularily, for every condition .

Widewing · « **Reply #38 on:** May 14, 2004, 07:14:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
don't know what you expect to fish except sword rattle with a stupid post like that.
I'm as good as Urchin (I ran into WW and fact is (regardless his RL credentials, they mean nothing in a game) he's not much better than average fighter:fighter)

Moot, I checked stats because I had been letting my brother fly on my account while he stayed with us last month (he's a cop, and was in between houses because his new house wasn't ready in time).

He never ran into you and the last time we met air to air was August of 2002... You won a rather longish duel in Doras. I had been playing about 6 months at that time. Now, nearly two years later, I promise you that you would have a very hard time repeating that. I too have practiced with Urchin, and I had a blast. He is a very good stick, as I'm sure you are. However, don't base your opinion on ancient events. Besides, the average player has a K/D something less than 0.5/1, or even worse...

Lazs is also a very good stick. So guys, let's not get into a weenie measuring contest here. On any given day in the MA anyone can kill anyone, because in the MA it's 70% circumstances and 30% skill. If skills are equal, circumstances will decide the winner and loser. Even if one should have greater skills, circumstances will often prevail.

Furballing takes skill. Prospering in the Ta 152 takes skill. Flying and fighting, and more importantly, surviving on the deck in the P-47 takes some skill too.

Who is better? Who cares? Are you enjoying yourself? If the answer is yes, then that should be enough.

My regards,

Widewing

moot · « **Reply #39 on:** May 14, 2004, 08:58:10 PM »

Ok I got a bit pissed off, by what I still think is a narrow pov on, like you say WW (i agree with you), what it takes to have fun.

My point wasn't which type of plane, or which type of dogfight or pilot is more fun or better, but that it's an false premise in the first place.

I mean, if HTC were to add Gloster Glad's or some other biplane etc, what would the FM2 be to those?
I don't have a bias to the 152 in terms of what's "fun", and yes I agree anything can be fun.
Matter of fact I usually let good duels stretch on and on to keep it fun rather than just end it at the first occasion.

Once I'm out of this ****ing semester at Uni, I'll grab a stick and derust and we can try out your theory WW

thrila · « **Reply #40 on:** May 14, 2004, 09:15:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoctorYO
Extreme small perk on nik, spit, and the typhoon.. They have weaknesses but are still pretty beefy...

So RAF aficiandos get to fly what exactly?? Lets see......ooo hurricanes!! lets not be too generous!:rolleyes:

DoctorYO · « **Reply #41 on:** May 15, 2004, 08:11:51 AM »

I dont mean the mid war spit:

Spit5 and Spit 1 (el Dog) and seadfire...

Spit5 is a excellent aircraft.. far better than the zeke with exception of the flight duration..

DoctorYO

lazs2 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 15, 2004, 08:59:51 AM »

moot... you say I need more skill to fly like you. I say I don't care to develop that particular "skill". If I get behind you and can catch you... you are simply ded. And.... I am not very good.

Truth is... I never see you either. You will never be in the same fight I am. there are a lot of guys that I will never see in this game. I really don't care if they are in the game or not. I don't really care what your opinion is since it has nothing to do with what I do. I am not interested in H2H as it has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Furballs are not H2h. If you can't get away in a 152 then you are pitifull or just having a good time and not caring. I rarely see 152's but I ignore them if I do.. They have nothing to do with the game I am in.

dryo... I have never taken more than 3/4 of a tank in the yak and it is mostly 1/2... I have run out with half a tank on occassion but mostly... if it looks like I will have to go more than a half a yak tank will take me... I don't bother. I also normally fly the yak at about 4-5k. I like to furball it with the spits.

lazs

Widewing · « **Reply #43 on:** May 15, 2004, 11:30:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Ok I got a bit pissed off, by what I still think is a narrow pov on, like you say WW (i agree with you), what it takes to have fun.

My point wasn't which type of plane, or which type of dogfight or pilot is more fun or better, but that it's an false premise in the first place.

I mean, if HTC were to add Gloster Glad's or some other biplane etc, what would the FM2 be to those?
I don't have a bias to the 152 in terms of what's "fun", and yes I agree anything can be fun.
Matter of fact I usually let good duels stretch on and on to keep it fun rather than just end it at the first occasion.

Once I'm out of this ****ing semester at Uni, I'll grab a stick and derust and we can try out your theory WW

I can have fun doing almost anything. Last night I did a little of everything one can do with fighters. I took part in base captures, I porked V bases that were being problematic, I defended against buff attacks, I defended against CV attacks and I manned a 5" turret and clobbered some PTs.

On such a night I will fly many different fighters. Last evening I flew these:

F4U-1C
FM-2
Hurricane IIC
P-47D-30
F6F-5
P-51D
Bf 109G-2
P-40E

Landed 55 kills for no losses or damage. Add about a dozen assists for finishing off or damaging other enemies. Killed roughly 6 hangers and two VHs. Killed two shore batteries, sank a Cruiser and destroyed about a dozen supply barges.

All in all, a little of everything. This is the kind of diversity I enjoy, every sortie had different elements. I get bored with one dimensional game play and need to do different things. Some players enjoy flying but one type of sortie. I don't. That doesn't mean what they do is not fun, they obviously enjoy that type of fighting. More power to them. Others prefer to loiter over furballs and cherrypick. Kind of lame, but whatever floats their boats... Still others like to work alone, tearing up incoming missions and attacking hordes while they assemble. That can be great fun too (ideal for the Ta 152 and Jug).

The thing is, one can be very successful at one particular aspect of the game and be perfectly content to do that exclusively. I prefer to engage in all aspects.

Anyway, I look forward to flying with you in the DA or TA. I prefer the TA because you can paint the other guy and continue the fight. No waiting for the guy to re-plane, the fight goes on until guns are empty and then both auger and re-up. You get a lot more fighting for your time expenditure.

My regards,

Widewing

Urchin · « **Reply #44 on:** May 15, 2004, 05:26:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
moot... you say I need more skill to fly like you. I say I don't care to develop that particular "skill". If I get behind you and can catch you... you are simply ded. And.... I am not very good.

Truth is... I never see you either. You will never be in the same fight I am. there are a lot of guys that I will never see in this game. I really don't care if they are in the game or not. I don't really care what your opinion is since it has nothing to do with what I do. I am not interested in H2H as it has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Furballs are not H2h. If you can't get away in a 152 then you are pitifull or just having a good time and not caring. I rarely see 152's but I ignore them if I do.. They have nothing to do with the game I am in.

dryo... I have never taken more than 3/4 of a tank in the yak and it is mostly 1/2... I have run out with half a tank on occassion but mostly... if it looks like I will have to go more than a half a yak tank will take me... I don't bother. I also normally fly the yak at about 4-5k. I like to furball it with the spits.

lazs

I'd put my money on Moot, actually.

I've fought you before, and he is a better dogfighter than I am, at least in the 190/Ta-152. I'm pretty much a one trick pony in those.