Courteous Political Discussion

[Holden McGroin]

not that there's anything wrong with that

Your supposed to use the disclaimer any time you accuse anyone.

and you should learn from your parents mistakes - try using some birth control.

[Nash]

To be totally honest, the F A G is about the only thing I could think of cuz I'm pretty sure the filter would block everything else.... but Funked used F A G to me and it passed... and I didn't have the energy to re-invent the mouse trap and all that.

[IK0N]

Courteous Political Discussion=oxymoron

[storch]

Originally posted by AKIron
I'd have been content to let the middle eastern Muslims continue wearin' their turbans, hackin' off each others' hands, beatin' their women, shootin' their ak47's in the air, starvin' each each other to death, and just generally havin' a good time if only they'd not drug us into it. When they attacked us on an unignorable scale they should have expected to get spanked. This ain't the 11th century any more.

I agree with you Iron.  however I think that the foray into Iraq was a mistake.  there is a saying in Spanish "Mas vale un mal conocido que un bien por conocer"  I'm sure that there is an english adage to go along with it but I've never heard it.  Anyhow it says it is better to have a known bad thing than to have an unknown good thing, or perhaps a good thing yet to be known.

[strk]

POTUS is a difficult job and imo the more a president is idealogicially driven the poorer leader he would be.  

A leader must be flexible in a complex and hostile world.  think european infantry tactics circa 1800 versus sun-tzu/guerrila warfare.

I didn't like Bush* from the beginning because he gives me the impression of an empty suit, a mouthpiece.  Noone could possibly disagree that if he had not been the son of the former Bush he would never have been a presidential candidate or the gov of Texas for that matter.  That rubs me the wrong way because that isnt what America is supposed to be imo

So Bush* got his chance, ok.  He also got a Rebuplican congress, and he truly got the support of the entire US and the world after 9-11.  The GOP and Bush had a real chance to prove that their philosophy was superior.  And look what has hapenned -

net job loss around 3M with major White House encouraged outsourcing

An administration who probably (that is as fair as it can be put) dropped the ball on 9-11 warnings and intel

Our intelligence cant seem to get it together after 9-11, as there was all the false info about WMD, yellowcake, etc.  Although to be fair their are insider witnesses who have stated that Bush* was pushing for war with Iraq from the get-go.  

Tax cuts at the same time - two in fact, that overwhelmingly favor the rich.  Why do millionaires need a new porsche each year when our troops still don't have enough ammo or armor.  

Record deficits follow.  We are over 7 TRILLION in debt folks.  What is the minimum payment on that?  Bush* also broke the record on deficit spending after being handed a hefty surplus - by the dread Klinton - damn him!

Iraq, which started off so well, has gone to crap.  Bush* damamged the reputation of the US by his unilateral action, for what turned out to be a mistake.  Things went downhill from there, to say the least.  

How about an energy bill that favors oil and gas corps, a prescription drug plan that gives billions to the pharm. industry, and no child left behind which turned out to be underfunded window dressing.

My point is that this administration has blindly followed their flawed ideals to the point that the county has been hurt - GIve benefits to those that need them least, ignore impending terrorism, and seek out military action in a troubled land that just happens to be sitting on a big load of oil.

I want someone who will use his brain to lead this country, someone who will act in the interest of the people, not the corps, and someone who will only use the military as a last resort.  

Vote for John Kerry.  no brainer.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by strk
POTUS is a difficult job and imo the more a president is idealogicially driven the poorer leader he would be.  

i·de·ol·o·gy

A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

So a president shold be a blank slate, responding to the whims of circumstance rather than have an agenda:  like for example "A house divided aganst itself cannot stand" someone like that would obviously suck as a leader.  got it.

[storch]

I agree strk. In order to vote for John Kerry you would first need to be paralyzed from the neck up.

[Toad]

Originally posted by strk

net job loss around 3M with major White House encouraged outsourcing

Proof yet again that many products of our school system have failed to fully understand NAFTA, Most Favored Nation status and, of course, the basic results of "free trade" policies.

Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores

Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more

They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown  Springsteen, "My Hometown" 1980

[strk]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
i·de·ol·o·gy

A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

So a president shold be a blank slate, responding to the whims of circumstance rather than have an agenda:  like for example "A house divided aganst itself cannot stand" someone like that would obviously suck as a leader.  got it.

way to make a straw man argument - however a logical fallacy

thanks for the spelling lesson, sport

[strk]

Originally posted by storch
I agree strk. In order to vote for John Kerry you would first need to be paralyzed from the neck up.

I guess you will be voting dem this year?

[strk]

Originally posted by Toad
Proof yet again that many products of our school system have failed to fully understand NAFTA, Most Favored Nation status and, of course, the basic results of "free trade" policies.

so losing 3 million american jobs is ok because of NAFTA?  The Dread Clinton dropped the ball on NAFTA - it was a mistake from the get go and never included the worker and environmental rights that were promised.  

So now we can get cheap products made by slaves overseas, and 3 MILLION americans out of work

yeah NAFTA!

btw - did you go to some private school and that makes you so smart?

[MrLars]

...the new avitar, the message it conveys is my opinion.

[Toad]

Your questions in order:

The loss of jobs to overseas "outsourcing" had been going on long before Springsteen lamented it in "My Hometown." Therefore, it's clear that the "outsourcing" of US jobs is not a short term recent phenomenom, although obviously a lot of folks trained in the "60 minute sitcom" or perhaps "MTV" mode of thinking expect that since THEY just noticed it, it must be a new thing and should be able to be wrapped up in an hour or less, deducting for commercial breaks, of course.

So, losing 3 million jobs ISN'T "just because of NAFTA". I hope that answers question #1.


Yes, I did go to Private Catholic Schools through High School. I went to a public University for my degree. However, it wasn't the schools that "makes me so smart". Indeed, I suspect I am of average intelligence at best. However, the big difference is that I obviously paid more attention than some other folks while I was there.

[storch]

Originally posted by strk
so losing 3 million american jobs is ok because of NAFTA?  The Dread Clinton dropped the ball on NAFTA - it was a mistake from the get go and never included the worker and environmental rights that were promised.  

So now we can get cheap products made by slaves overseas, and 3 MILLION americans out of work

yeah NAFTA!

btw - did you go to some private school and that makes you so smart?

Do you buy any of those cheap products?  When you have work done at your home do you get three bids and select the highest priced one?  

Pipe down already you silly liberal, your time and rhetoric are from the past.  

This is a global economy.  

When I can get castings made in America that are equal in quality to the the ones I get from Taiwan and are equal in price then I will buy American.  

I use this example because this is one of the few mfg. goods where I still have a choice.  I choose the imported product for price and quality.  

A US casting costs me $2.95.  the comparable Taiwanese product $1.25.  

We use hundreds of these castings on certain styles of rails.  

Who would I pass the costs on to?  My customers?  

Do you think that if I explained to the customer that the reason my product was 120% more costly than the next guy's because I bought American they would understand and give me the job?  

Aside from that, the jobs in the US foundries are held by left leaning union types such as yourself.  They would take my money and use it to support Kerry.  Frankly I'd rather see a Taiwanese person feed his family first.  All you guys are doing is eroding the foundations of the greatest country on earth.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by storch
I agree with you Iron.  however I think that the foray into Iraq was a mistake.  there is a saying in Spanish "Mas vale un mal conocido que un bien por conocer"  I'm sure that there is an english adage to go along with it but I've never heard it.  Anyhow it says it is better to have a known bad thing than to have an unknown good thing, or perhaps a good thing yet to be known.

IMO, without risk and the potential for failure there can be no potential for greatness. No one is ever praised for their failures, unless of course they persevere and convert them into success.