Author Topic: Courteous Political Discussion  (Read 2313 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Courteous Political Discussion
« on: May 14, 2004, 10:33:46 PM »
Let me begin by stating that I'm not interested in causing a flaming thread of any kind. Besides, calling many of you idiots would be an insult to all the stupid people. I'm merely here to open myself to differing opinions, not to start some fruitless argument. So, a thought crossed your mind? Must have been a long and lonely journey. With that in mind, if you wish to say something, please do so in a mature, positive, and moreover constructive manner.

I know most of you have an interest in the political ramifications of the decisions of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and many have had insightful comments to make on the subject.  Some of you though are the kind of person one would use as a blueprint to build an idiot.  So keep your thoughts concise and get directly to the point.  Don't let your mind wander - it's far too small to be let out on its own.  

The subject of this thread is whether it is better to have someone in the oval office who has firm convictions or someone with a more flexible approach to policy.  So post your ideas; if you keep it up long enough someday you'll say something intelligent.  Above all folks, let’s keep it courteous and hold the insults to a minimum.  

I believe that we should be electing a leader who steers public opinion rather than following the currents of popular thought. Too many politicians are reacting to polls and if that were the way in 1862, Lincoln would not have been able to press on his policy, which has been proven through history as the appropriate one. I realize it's hard to get the big picture when you have such a small screen, but try to keep up.  We are supposed to elect leaders, not followers.

;)
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Offline Sandman

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2004, 10:41:20 PM »
The world changes. Some flexibility is required.

It seems that presidents all too often forget the promises they made. We can hope that they were elected based upon their position on certain issues that will be addressed during their tenure.

But the world changes. If the President backs away from a campaign promise, it would be nice if he explained why without rhetoric.

I think the opinion polling requires a balance. Used too often and the President is little more than a reactionary with no clear vision at all. On the other hand, to ignore the public opinion is like putting blinders on. The first lacks focus. The second lacks scope.
sand

Offline Nash

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Re: Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2004, 10:49:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
"...So keep your thoughts concise and get directly to the point."


YOU F A G!

But I digress....

Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
"I believe that we should be electing a leader who steers public opinion rather than following the currents of popular thought."


I thought y'all ditched the monarchy a long time ago. Wouldn't you rather have someone at least pretending to advocate on your behalf?

Popular thought is popular for a reason.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Re: Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2004, 10:54:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So, a thought crossed your mind? Must have been a long and lonely journey.


Yup, and he got lost. Let you know when he finds his way home.
-SW

Offline Holden McGroin

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2004, 10:55:09 PM »
I hear you changed your mind! What did you do with the diaper?

I like to think that I would be the sheriff standing on the jailhouse steps protecting the prisoner from the mob rather than one of the mob.  

Popular opinion is sometimes wrong, and it takes wisdom to convince the populace of their folly.
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Offline Gunslinger

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2004, 10:55:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
The world changes. Some flexibility is required.

It seems that presidents all too often forget the promises they made. We can hope that they were elected based upon their position on certain issues that will be addressed during their tenure.

But the world changes. If the President backs away from a campaign promise, it would be nice if he explained why without rhetoric.

I think the opinion polling requires a balance. Used too often and the President is little more than a reactionary with no clear vision at all. On the other hand, to ignore the public opinion is like putting blinders on. The first lacks focus. The second lacks scope.


Wow sandman that post actually holds some truth and merit.  it isnt overly judgmental or biased.  I'm impressed!

Here's my stance.  Directly relating to bush he was not my first choice and it certainly wasnt Al Gore.  My first choice was John Mcain.  While I find myself often disagreeing with him I find him a man of action and integridy.  

That being said Bush was the next best thing.  That being said I STILL think Bush is the next best thing compared to Kerry.

It's pretty sad when I dont fully support the canidate I'm voting for because I disagree entirly w/ the other guy.  I KNOW alot of people are going to vote for Kerry for much the same reasons.  That just shows you the sad state of American politics.  

Bush being a conservative stands by MOST of the issues I as a voter hold near and dear to my heart (IE Gun control, The Economy, Abortion ect)....Kerry does not.  I dont like the fact that Bush has run up a deficit but I know he has done alot to improve the economy.  I TRUELY belive that Kerry would do a worse job.


With all that being said let the flameless posts begin.  If held true this will be a welcome thread to get to know people.

Offline Nash

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2004, 10:56:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Popular opinion is sometimes wrong, and it takes wisdom to convince the populace of their folly.


Oh DAMN you! You had to go and play the wisdom card.

You win.

Bush hands down.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2004, 11:00:13 PM »
I understand you have an inferiority complex -- and it's fully justified, but I did not mention those who try for the job presently.  I am talking in generalizations, not specifics.
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Offline Nash

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2004, 11:02:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I understand you have an inferiority complex -- and it's fully justified, but I did not mention those who try for the job presently.  I am talking in generalizations, not specifics.


Generalizations are cute and fund.

Specifics are the things that actually bite ya in the arse.

I think there was a link posted to some other forum today if you want to speaky in fairy tale code.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2004, 11:04:19 PM »
Definitely don't want to insult all of the stupid people. But then again, how do you do that? ;)
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Nash

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2004, 11:07:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Definitely don't want to insult all of the stupid people. But then again, how do you do that? ;)


One idea might be to point out that we're all hangin' out on this BBS. :)

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2004, 11:08:26 PM »
Dwelling on specifics is what the old "Can't see the forest for the trees" saying is all about.  

Looking at the big picture and voting for someone even though you disagree on something like abortion (or pick your favorite issue) but agree on a larger portion of the platform than another candidate is what big picture thinking is all about.

If I said anything to you that I should be sorry for, I'm glad.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2004, 11:14:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
If I said anything to you that I should be sorry for, I'm glad.


Your gladness is my gladness. I aim to please.

Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Yeah but dwelling on specifics is what the old "Can't see the forest for the trees" saying is all about.  



Pretend this is Antarctica. There's no dwelling going on. You're rah rahing for a strong leader that stands firm for the best of amreeka despite the fickleness of popular opinion. I'm simply pointing out the folly (your word) in this line of thought considering the geniuses currently dwelling in the White House.

Or are you really actually trying to compare Bush to Lincoln?

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2004, 11:42:55 PM »
Nash, Nash...

You're acquitting yourself in such a way that no jury ever would.

In this thread I have not mentioned the current occupant of the White House.  The reason I am taking pains to speak in traits that we would like in our leaders, rather than  anthropomorphizing those traits in an individual, is I vote for someone who bests fits my 'ideal leader' no one has measured up yet.

And if this were Antartica, I would be voting for the president of Antartica, not America.
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Offline Nash

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Courteous Political Discussion
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2004, 11:49:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Nash, Nash...

You're acquitting yourself in such a way that no jury ever would.


Nah screw that. Any jury would take so much pity on me that on the eve of my aquittal we'd all be stupid drunk and be singing the theme to 'Titanic' on Kareoke.


Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
In this thread I have not mentioned the current occupant of the White House.


That's the problem. A problem you seem to want to avoid. For it makes void your entire argument.