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Author Topic: The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.  (Read 861 times)

Offline Dnil

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2004, 10:37:56 AM »
ummm guys, ask skuzzy to ask his son what goes on in our own SERE school during the POW training portion.


I remember being naked and having a hood on my head....and shock, being thrown around and smacked around to.



I'm not concerned about that stuff at all, what I am concerned with are the allegations of rape and murder.  Thats the real issue.
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Offline capt. apathy

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2004, 12:11:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Again simpletons.  There is no scandle here.  As soon as this was reported to the proper people an investigation was started.  Currently their are SIX seperate investigations currently taking place.  The only reason pople want rumsfeld to resign is cause they dont care how much they hurt the country or step on toes they want Bush gon.  This is political plain and simple.

Funniest part is Rumsfeld has a 70% aproval rating.  Good luck getting a resignation.


quote:
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The rules governing the secret operation were "grab whom you must. Do what you want," the unidentified former intelligence official told the New Yorker.

Rumsfeld left the details of the interrogations to Cambone, the article quoted a Pentagon consultant as saying.

"This is Cambone's deal, but Rumsfeld and Myers approved the program," said the Pentagon consultant in the article.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't seen any credible evidence of a coverup, but there damn sure is a scandle.

and if the alegations in the Newyorker are true, I'd say Rumsfleds involvement was criminal.
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Offline WilldCrd

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2004, 12:13:37 PM »
Rumsfeld has already staed he will not be resigning
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Offline Gunslinger

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2004, 01:14:52 PM »
I see the media creating more news than they are reporting now a days.
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Offline txmx

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2004, 05:50:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
txmx - I am confused by your sig. I thought you were Jewish...?


My birth parent where Jewish.
I am adopted.
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Offline Maverick

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2004, 12:07:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I see the media creating more news than they are reporting now a days.


Situation normal. That is the standard MO for them.
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Offline _Schadenfreude_

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2004, 02:07:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
at this point in the game it'd be cheaper to fly out those who are in support of the way our country's been headed in the last 3 years.  they could take Bush, Rumsfeld,  and their fluff'n patriot act with them.  

we could probably just charge the cost to the rest of the deficit they've created too(it'd hardly be noticed when added to that tab), though I doubt you could talk them into taking responsibility for their actions and taking that deficit with them.


Listen we'll take Stabby but there's no way we're taking the motley crew unless of course we get to try them as war criminals in the Hague...
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Offline StabbyTheIcePic

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2004, 07:28:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I see the media creating more news than they are reporting now a days.


Yea sure, they are just making **** up out of thin air. Well i guess if you watch fox news you are used to that so nm.
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Offline Westy

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2004, 08:03:21 AM »
With Gitmo and the Iraq prisons Rumsfeild and group have used lawyers to find loop holes and ways to get around the Geneva convention.  When you have disdain and contempt at the very top you can be sure, in this case, that a Gestapo like attitude such as that will "trickle down" to the lowest man on the totem pole.



(added later:  http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact  )
« Last Edit: May 17, 2004, 09:40:29 AM by Westy »
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Offline Gunslinger

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2004, 08:06:55 AM »
Why would they have to get "around" geneva conventions rules.  These prisoners in Iraq are criminals.....NOT pows.  They have very few protected rights under the geneva acord.

Stabby now you're just making watermelon up cause I never said that.  I'm not referring to the media on just Iraq but on all issues.  They create the story by creating a "scandle" out of it.
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Offline Westy

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2004, 08:21:41 AM »
"criminals"

"terrorist"

"WMD"

"rights abuse"

"tyrant"

"Axis of Evil"

"Mission accomplished"

"They create the story by creating a "scandle" out of it."


 Pitch in folks . What other overused McCarthieisms are there listed on the standard issue Bush Jugend "retort and rebuttal" party card?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2004, 08:37:05 AM by Westy »
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Offline gatt

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2004, 09:00:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Why would they have to get "around" geneva conventions rules.  These prisoners in Iraq are criminals.....NOT pows.  They have very few protected rights under the geneva acord.



Blindly behaving this way you legitimate what nazis and fascists did to partisans in France, Italy and Yugoslavia during WW2.

Since the pics of tortures went on the net, *hundreds* of Abu Graib prisoners are being released more or *less* officially. Did your MP battalion suddenly discover that they were innocent iraqi citizens/soldiers? C'mon ... :rolleyes:

You guys are the only still beleiving that those thousands of armed iraqi's are only terrorists.

Go and invade Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lybia and Sudan (they train and support terrorists as well, in case you didnt know) ... then you'll discover hundred thousands terrorists there as well ... :rofl
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Offline Vermillion

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2004, 09:54:21 AM »
Gunslinger is correct.

The Geneva Convention is VERY specific about who is covered under its provisions (It covers Regular military personnel and non combatants).  And most of the people mentioned are not covered.

Not that I condone prisoner abuse, or human rights abuses in general.  

But just about all of the prisoners from Afghanistan, and most of the prisoners from Iraq not captured during the initial fighting are not covered by the Geneva convention.  Period.

If fact, I believe that under the Geneva convention, "guerillas", partisans, or "irregular fighters" can be summarily executed.
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Offline Westy

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2004, 10:49:52 AM »
Based on Rumsfield & crews definitions of who they are ("illegal combatant") is part of the problem IMO.  

 When does an enemy become "irregular?"  When they do not fight like nor have a "regular" army ala the US or UK?

 When do they become a guerrilla/partisan? After their military and standing government have surrendered? What if no one surrendered?

   If the Geneva convention is so clear cut as to who is protected and who is not then the efforts to find loop holes and interpretations to skirt around the convention verbiage?

  Again...

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact
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Offline Vermillion

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The Reason Rumsfeld should resign.
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2004, 11:14:11 AM »
Quote
When does an enemy become "irregular?" When they do not fight like nor have a "regular" army ala the US or UK?

When do they become a guerrilla/partisan? After their military and standing government have surrendered? What if no one surrendered?


Basically yes.  You must be in uniform, and in the service of a recognised countries military arm.  

So.  If you are not in uniform.  If your government does not officially exist (ie "revolutionary groups"), or your government has surrendured or ceased too exist.  The Geneva convention does not apply to my knowledge.

At least thats the gist of what I was taught in the military.
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