Author Topic: An old retired AH players Q's for AH II  (Read 464 times)

Offline Obear1971

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« on: May 21, 2004, 05:52:50 PM »
Hey guys, been a long time since I played AH, must be at least a year now.

Ive been playing WWII air combat sims for years. I played Warbirds when it was not even 3dfx :) Boy those spiky star shaped smoke has come a long way :)

After 3 years of Warbirds I joined AH for a good few years.

After WWIIonline came out I was playing both games, still enjoying AH, but then started playing less and less AH, till the time come when I hadn’t logged in for 2 months and decided there was no point in paying for something I don’t use, so I unsubscribed with many a happy memory :)  Ahh those long Lancaster buff runs with the VMF 222 flying deuces :)

What stopped me playing Aces High was really the lack of what originally made me play it like a hooked junkie.

Less intense battle, same old dog fighting and mostly that pizza map. Every time that map came around I didn’t play for a few weeks till the map rotated. It was such a chore playing that map, little action and miles of terrain till the next facility.

Anyway, I have been playing WWIIonline since then (yes I know a big boo hiss form some of you, but really WWIIonline is sweet I like it so lets not start a peeing contest cos AH and WWIIonline are 2 different games)

I have been watching and playing with the AHII beta, looking forward to its release when I may see a return of the game that I loved so much, with added whistles and bells. And hoping to re-subscribe.

Well I have kept quirt so far, as this is beta I know it dose not represent the finished article. Well now on the boards this last beta is about it till the full release.

So im left wondering, what is new??

OK I know Hi Tech and the gang have spent allot of hard work and time on this title, which is why I have these opinions and are asking these questions.

First off, this is how I see AHII as of latest beta (the supposed almost release version)

The first wrong thing I felt about AHII is the sense of nostalgia I got. I shouldn’t get nostalgic about AH1 playing AH2. They should look and feel different, but they don’t.

Apart from nicer textures, the aircraft look the same inside (which is where we spend all of the time) the dials etc are all the same, no moving control leavers joysticks etc, no new VR cockpit, just the same AH1.

The sounds are all the same (with a few added ones) The explosion sound and graphics are exactly the same, the MG sounds are the same, the engine start up sounds are the same.

The FEEL of the aircraft is the same, and somewhat weird. The glide ratio of all aircraft is amazing. Scrape the aircraft on the ground, damage prop and engine and glide for ages, then when you loose speed and are down to 20mph gently float to the ground as apposed to dropping like a stone, just like AH1 I thought was a bit amazing then.

The new ground is different but, im sorry to say Horrible. That garish dark green colour, I never seen such a dark green field in real life. There is no coast like there was in the first, just green stops and deep deep deep blue colour sea starts.

Those trees, well, they look like multi levels tables when your low

New building look nice, less child’s toy houses like the first ones are so a bit of a plus there. Oh and we got real time shadows, cool but at speed dog fighting at 5000 feet, im not going to notice.

you see, all in all the whole game looks, feels just like AH1, im sure allot of stuff has been done "Under the hood" but as a player and a possible customer I never see "under the hood" all I see is AH1 with a few high res textures slapped over the aircraft, a few new special effects like the tracer etc and the dated but pleasing to the eye ground textures of the first replaced by something out of a colour blind developers nightmare.

im disappointed because since I heard that Dale and the gang were making AHII, I have been as giddy as a school girl.

I was thinking AH1 gets severely rogerd by IL2. I was thinking VR cockpits with moving controls etc. I was thinking a more elaborate VISUAL damage model. I was thinking a more realistic ground sea and air, weather maybe.

I wasn’t expecting IL2 but a jump towards that kind of fidelity. At the end of the day if IL2 can do what it dose with such an awesome look and feel, online, in a large arena and FREE. AH should be able to emulate at least a little of that with its AHII title.

The only thing AH has that IL2 dose not is TOTAL in game single server numbers.

Whilst that provides limitations over IL2, surely not as much as to develop a AH1 clone with a bit of a paint job.

I know I sound angry, im not, just disappointed.

Please tell me there is a ton of Stuff to add>?  I think I read on these forums that there is a lot of visual stuff to add???  Just how much and what type of visual stuff??

Are they going to replace all the cockpits?
Are they going to add a cool visual damage model?
Are they going to add more to the ground textures like coastlines?
Are they going to tweak the flight model more so the aircraft feel more like they are made of wood and metal than paper.
Are there some cool new features im un-aware of like barrage balloons or something :)

I’m not being a jerk, razzing on AH. It’s still a great Massive online WWII air dog fighting Sim. But after all that dev time and thinking of all the cool ways it could be developed. I didn’t expect to have to check the link I used to download the pre-release beta to make sure I dint get AH 1 by mistake.
I guess if this was called AH 1.19 I wouldn’t have such a problem with it.

My thoughts anyways

Offline Degas

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2004, 07:22:14 PM »
I'm a bit like you, Obear.  Except I'm thinking of coming back from a lot longer ago (2001, to be exact).  So long ago that I don't even have a post count, LOL.  Although, to my surprise, my account was still in the DB ;)

But, from what I've seen, AH2 doesn't really represent a great leap forward.  I have absolutely no doubt that Pyro, Hi-Tech, and the rest have worked their tulips off on this new iteration.  But I'm not really all that anal about the flight models and the other "under the hood" changes.  To be honest, I didn't see all that much wrong with the flight models back in '01.  They still kicked my butt on a regular basis :D

From what I'm reading, I don't think we're going to see the improvements in such things as ground foliage, etc. that I was hoping for.  I'm still going to give it the 2-week trial run and see if things have changed for myself, however.  It's only fair to the efforts made by HTC to do at least that much.

With the right coding, there is technically no reason why the surface detail couldn't be done with the Half-Life engine, with a simple "details reduced" switch while you are in the cockpit of a plane.  You could have a ground war with all the new Dx 9 bells and whistles, and an airwar with more detail as well.

I think the fanbase that has been here lo, these many years, is more of a hard-core sim bunch.  To many of them, the flight models ARE the game, with the visuals playing second fiddle.

As we both know, the gameplay aspect just absolutely rocks.  Like you, I'm disappointed that the newest version hasn't taken advantage of the overall upgrades in both connections and hardware of the last year or so.  Of course, developing and incorporating those features would take a significant infusion of cash.  Server upgrades, probably...as well as developing or licensing the technology to convert the 3D terrains and models to something more in line with today's technology.  Probably the cost of a lot fatter pipes for those new servers to sit on.  You would have to significantly increase either the monthly subscription or the numbers of players in order for it to make financial sense.

It's a trade-off.  Running Aces High and keeping HTC in the black has to take the priority, if we are going to have Aces High around.  A complete virtual 3D world upgrade would be a big risk.

Offline Citabria

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2004, 08:46:05 PM »
don't worry to much about the terrain colors and tiles guys.

we have squirl on the terrain team and he is one of the most experienced and best tile makers out there and when he gets a hold of the specs for the tiles or the terrain editor he will be able to do some amazing things.

the new system looks awful indeed but your seeing a diamond in the rough and when squirl figures out how to start cutting that diamond its going to surpass ah1 in terms of visual quality potential due to higher resolution textures.

have faith in HTC.

and have faith in the players and the community that devote their free time to improving what HTC allows them to improve for the benefit of this community and its players.

i will let you in on a little secret.
no fancy bells or whistles will keep you playing any game no matter how well it looks. waht will keep you hooked is your squadmates and players you have grown to know and enjoy playing with and against. as you dive into the fight together and fight for your virtual lives. people you have never met in person yet you have become friends with through your shared experiences online within this game. but other games have this too. and if everyone you fly with moves to a new game you will likely go there too.

this is part of why those of us able to contribute what we can to this game. because this community and this company that provides the platform for our exploits and virtual adventures.

HTC stubournly listens to their customers even the really annoying ones that get on their nerves they still keep an open ear to them as well.

For me personally I want to see AH2 surpass IL2 in visual quality.
high resolution high detail high quality textures for aircraft and terrains is indeed a step towards this and the AH players have access and ability to improve the actual skins of aircraft right now and we are doing so in earnest on new 3d models and some of the better looking old ones as well.

maybe its just familiarity or maybe its overactive patriotism or whatever but I would like to see our small little underdog american company take on the big russian juggernaut that has rapidly vaulted ahead in the race to the most immersive combat sim. rest assured the russian company will eventually move into the MMOG online world. it is as inevitable as a noob flying an la7.

the lead in network coding and gameplay is still soundly in HTC's court but they are getting quickly outpaced in the flight model, damage model and graphics area by dedicated people from a country that was able to rebuild the worlds most complex ww2 bomber (b29) and reproduce it at a production level! they were able to do this because of attention to detail. they leave nothing for granted. it is attention to detail that is the reason for the success of IL2. and it is also a reason why il2 is very immersive and authentic.

thats what HTC will be up against in the future.

and I think HTC can still win that race. not a race to be the biggest or the most succesful or to have the most players...

to be the best online sim.
sports fans have their hometown baseball teams etc. we have our fligth sim home team as well... even if it is no where near where we live.
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Offline NHawk

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2004, 09:21:50 AM »
Like others I think the ground cover is just an adaptation of what Nuttz talked about a long time ago with layers of textures at different heights. While this was a great idea for AH1, I really expected more from AH2. I know it came a bit late, but being totally disappointed in the ground cover I sent Pyro information on this type of forest the other day....



I just hope it's not to late to re-code ground cover.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 09:31:13 AM by NHawk »
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Offline daddog

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2004, 11:28:39 AM »
Give it time Obear. Once AHII is out then we will see again (I hope) the regular updates with new AC and GV plus improvements in game play and graphics. I personally was disappointed it how AHII looked, but after tweaking the graphics on my end some it has improved.

Cit is right on in his post. Game play is important, graphics are important, but flying with squadies in a community you can call home is where it is at.

WWIIOL rocks. The ground graphics are superb. Thankfully many in my squad are playing WWIIOL yet many are still in AH. That makes making a choice easier when the time comes. Maybe most customers can afford two WWII sims, but I cannot. In the next few months I will need to choose between the two. I remember one day a few weeks back I saw Mo and Ramp online. They shot me a hello and I told them I was over from Aces High giving WWIIOL a try. They said AH was terrific and had nothing but good things to say about hitech, pyro and crew. That in itself shows us something. I certainly have never heard HTC say anything negative about WWIIOL. That is refreshing considering all that is going on and has gone on with Warbirds. The biggest issue with WWIIOL is the lack of customer service. It sucks. That weighs heavy on my personal scale between AH and WWIIOL.

Anyway, sorry for getting off track. I am plugging for AHII. This is where my home is, my roots are, and countless hours working events. I hope AHII will bring back the enjoyment I had for this sim, but if not at least I have another place to move to with my squad where they don’t put down my old neighborhood. Give it time Obear, give it time.



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Offline Obear1971

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2004, 11:53:22 AM »
Oh sure bud, i never razz on AH its still the best masive online wwii Dogfighting sim, its just the Title AHII gave impressions of a whole new next generation Aces High.

I was dreaming of all the wonders Dale would come up with for this New incarnation.

Im just a little confused as to why its Basicly AH1 with a few minor changes.

I would understand alot more if the flying of the aircrfat seemed diffrent, as though they spent alot of time designing a whole new flight model, but even that feels just the way i left AH 1 a year ago.

OK not to compaire WWIIonline with AH (they are diffrent games) but both use air combat and both are small Dev teams with a tight budget. Yet WWIIonline can upgrade from the naff 1980's paneled trees in one patch, to the new 3D trees in the next patch, thast just 1 patch up,

to this ....





And AH in its whole New version manages stacked geometric planes that look not good at low levels.

AH is not erally about ground war, so it dosent have the Need WWIIonline has so it could do even better than this, as it could cut back a little on pollys and add even More trees etc.

I dunno, i sound like a spolit ungreatfull child, i do understand the hard work that has gone into AHII, i just wish i could see it, feel it or understant were its all gone too.

I had dreams of huge Citys, INdutrial areas, Barrage ballons, REal aviators in the aircraft you can see. Ohh lots of stuff, Weather, varying cloude, seasons, cockpits somthing like IL2 insted of the flat brand spanking new look flat pannels. the ability to drive a truck and pick up a bailed team mate and take him back for a RTB
.

Ok ill stop moaning now, AH is still the best fighter sim, but still looks like it came form the 1990's

Offline NHawk

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2004, 01:02:54 PM »
Actually the info I sent to Pyro is the same engine for ground cover as the next (current??) incarnation WWIIOL.
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Offline Sled

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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 01:09:01 PM »
Fester, you hit right on the head.
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Offline daddog

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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2004, 01:16:20 PM »
Quote
Im just a little confused as to why its Basicly AH1 with a few minor changes.
It is not. If you look at it that way your not giving it a fair shot. You and I have no idea what they have put into AHII. Considering they have been working on it for about 2 years should tell us something.

I think we are looking at the foundation of AHII. Foundations are not much to look at.  Once they start building on the foundation we will see much to please the eye.

WWIIOL already has a foundation, hence we see regular and very enjoyable updates. This also will happen in AHII, but first they must finish the foundation.  It does have oil splashes, blood, visible damage, many new cloud types that IMHO look like those in WWIIOL, which I happen to enjoy. If your not happy with it come back in 6 months and take a peek.

I just think it is unfair to compare houses when one is not even done framing while the other is putting in furniture.

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Offline Octavius

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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2004, 01:32:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by daddog
I think we are looking at the foundation of AHII. Foundations are not much to look at.  Once they start building on the foundation we will see much to please the eye.


^ a BIG ditto on that DD!

Pyro had mentioned in the news section that AHII is nearing release without crucial graphical implementations yet.  I've heard talk of various pixel shaders and other neat effects that will be making an appearance.  Just a little more time... :)
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Offline Obear1971

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2004, 02:20:14 PM »
AHHHH see now THAT i can understand, that i can think to myself ok Cool ill watch this space.

You see thast why i am thinking its just AH1.

If we are looking at a AHII ENGINE type verion that will be built upon drasticly, then all is right with the world once more :)

It just wasent billed as that. It was billed as AHII and what i see is what i thought we was goign to get, and after that back to what we had with AH1, a regular update with a odd plane and maybe a effect or 2.

But if this is the raw bare skellington, upon which some serious meat is to be stuffed into. Then that i understand. and ill keep watching this space as giddy as a school girl again.

Im gonna give AHII the 2 week trial when it goes live, for old times sake and to see if it grabs me by the nads again :)

Offline Sox62

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An old retired AH players Q's for AH II
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2004, 03:11:27 PM »
I sure hope when AHII opens I can log in as easily as I could on WWIIOL the day it was released.

Comparing the ground terrain of AHII to WWIIOL isn't exactly fair at this point.WWIIOL has had several YEARS to work on it.Come back in three years and see what we have here then.

The one new thing everyone is over-looking is AHII-Tour of Duty.No it isn't out yet,but that will add a whole new level to online flight sims.