Author Topic: Who is that anti-amrican bastard?... (Read 2681 times)

Seeker · « **Reply #30 on:** May 21, 2004, 08:48:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash

"The issue is citing *entertainers* as serious contributors to our society..."

Guess that rules out Jesse Ventura, Arnie Scwartzenegger and good old Ronnie Raygun then...........

Nash · « **Reply #31 on:** May 21, 2004, 08:53:23 PM »

lol that would be the 1st dead-on "accurate" post of this whole thread, seeker.

Who the hell would argue that?

btw.... Where you been? Premature to say "Welcome back!" Or have you been hanging out in the other forums all along.

AKcurly · « **Reply #32 on:** May 21, 2004, 09:23:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
whatever....

The Coming of Wisdom with Time

Though leaves are many, the root is one;
Through all the lying days of my youth
I swayed my leaves and flowers in the sun;
Now I may wither into the truth.

-Yeats

Here's an "entertainer" for you. With nothing to offer you that Madonna can't.

You talk of accuracy? Well then this dude is missing the mark because there's no way he could grow leaves.

But maybe there's something more here....

Maybe it aint just entertainment (Pahtoohey! spit)

And maybe you, curly, need to revisit this. Just my observation cuz you seem to be getting farther from it.

I've never obtained much enlightenment from poetry. Much of it (Yeats time period) was written under the influence of malt or opium. Why should I be interested in anything said by someone who has given up?

If I want enlightened current social commentary, I'll read what cops and sociologists have to say. If want forecasts and perspectives, I'll read sociology/economics and history with perhaps a dash of government hacks.

But I sure won't read the meanderings of someone who spent his life writing for the general public. Wrong focus ...

Nash, I think you are misjudging my criticism. I don't fault Vonnegut for what he said. He's always interesting and frequently causes me to pause and think a bit. But, Vonnegut lacks the depth and perspective to be a serious social commentator.

Citing Vonnegut as a social commentator is equivalent to asking Murry Gellman how the persian santour has influenced contemporary jazz.

curly

Nash · « **Reply #33 on:** May 21, 2004, 09:43:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKcurly
Citing Vonnegut as a social commentator is equivalent to asking Murry Gellman how the persian santour has influenced contemporary jazz.

Jazz fan eh?

anyways....

What subject did you teach at University? Math/science-ish?

Yer now discarding work from giants because it was written during a so-called period of heavy opium use.

Before it was because they're all merely "entertainers".

What crap... history is a gazillion years old. Anyone can pick a work that you can't conveniantly blame on opium.

So, lame come-back.

Nevertheless, I thought Hendrix kicked ass. And Chruchill was one hell of a drunk.

Go ahead and continue to categorize them. And these guys will continue make history outside of your lame expectations/limitations.

Reminds me of a certain campaign. Can't discuss things on their own merits... attack the opponent.

Curly... your entire mind is a scientist. I quote Yeats and instead of responding to it you tell me that it was written during a period of heavy opium use or whatever.

You can't talk about the subject without attacking it.

And you are attacking people so much better than you or I.

What am I to make of it? Honestly?

mosgood · « **Reply #34 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:07:31 PM »

Here's a website I dug up on Vonnegut.

Some of the highlights are:

1940 Enrolls at Cornell University as a biochemistry major. Contributes to the Cornell Sun as managing editor and columnist.

1943 March. Enlists in United States Army. Sent to Carnegie Institute and University of Tennessee for training in mechanical engineering.

1944 May 14. Edith Lieber Vonnegut, mother, commits suicide.
December 22. Vonnegut captured during the Battle of the Bulge while a battalion scout with the 106 Infantry Division.

1945 February 13. Dresden, Germany bombed killing 135,000 citizens. Vonnegut and fellow Allied POWs take shelter in an underground meatlocker, the basis of Slaughterhouse-Five.
April. Soviet troops occupy Dresden.
May 22. Vonnegut released to return to the U.S. Awarded the Purple Heart.

Uneducated entertainer???? Holy cow Curly! Did you know this stuff before you judged him? Or does any of this even matter still?

Anti-American??? Holy Cow Laz. This guy has done it man! Think he might have a little different and more realistic perspective on war and America than you ? you know.... fighting for it and all....

http://www.duke.edu/~crh4/vonnegut/vonnegutia/chronology.html

Nash · « **Reply #35 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:19:23 PM »

As far as lazs is concerned... Vets, you know, alla guys who actually fought in wars, are so entirely damaged from the experience that they are now not qualified to speak on it.

Apearently it takes draft dodgers and the like to offer the most realistic perspective on war.

Sandman · « **Reply #36 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:35:44 PM »

Thanks Boroda... I believe the perspective of one that has lived so long is valuable.

AKcurly · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:38:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mosgood
Here's a website I dug up on Vonnegut.

Some of the highlights are:

1940 Enrolls at Cornell University as a biochemistry major. Contributes to the Cornell Sun as managing editor and columnist.

1943 March. Enlists in United States Army. Sent to Carnegie Institute and University of Tennessee for training in mechanical engineering.

1944 May 14. Edith Lieber Vonnegut, mother, commits suicide.
December 22. Vonnegut captured during the Battle of the Bulge while a battalion scout with the 106 Infantry Division.

1945 February 13. Dresden, Germany bombed killing 135,000 citizens. Vonnegut and fellow Allied POWs take shelter in an underground meatlocker, the basis of Slaughterhouse-Five.
April. Soviet troops occupy Dresden.
May 22. Vonnegut released to return to the U.S. Awarded the Purple Heart.

Uneducated entertainer???? Holy cow Curly! Did you know this stuff before you judged him? Or does any of this even matter still?

I knew he had a BS degree in science of some sort. Yeah, he's lacking in education to be considered a social commentator.

curly

mosgood · « **Reply #38 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:43:20 PM »

Sooo..... what creditials does a first rate "Social Commentator " need?

AKcurly · « **Reply #39 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:46:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash

Nevertheless, I thought Hendrix kicked ass. And Chruchill was one hell of a drunk.

yep & yep.

Quote

Curly... your entire mind is a scientist. I quote Yeats and instead of responding to it you tell me that it was written during a period of heavy opium use or whatever.

You can't talk about the subject without attacking it.

And you are attacking people so much better than you or I.

What am I to make of it? Honestly?

I can't help being logical. You can't expect me to take a gifted pianist and look for social pearls to dribble from his fingers. Conversely, you shouldn't expect a gifted historian / social scientifst to make meaningful contributions to music.

I'm not attacking Yeats or Vonnegut, They are far more accomplished in their fields than I ever was in my field. But good grief man, it doesn't translate! Why should I expect them to be gifted outside their fields of endeavor?

I object to Vonnegut being considered a social historian. He's an interesting SF writer with a modicum of education in the sciences.

curly

Nash · « **Reply #40 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:47:46 PM »

Can anyone actually be lacking in a formal education to be a "commentator"?

Yer being elitist here.

Because you were a U Prof. But you were a Prof of science.

Trying to spout of with authority on social/artistic subjects is stoopid. You have no more cred on the issue than any one of us on the matter. Which is obvious.

Nash · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:50:04 PM »

I almost guaruntee you haven't read any of the things/books in this thread.

AKcurly · « **Reply #42 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:51:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seeker
Guess that rules out Jesse Ventura, Arnie Scwartzenegger and good old Ronnie Raygun then...........

It sure does, Seeker.

Ventura / Herr Groppenfuhrer are pure opportunists and Ronnie Raygun was nothing other than seller of soap and a pathological liar to boot. Being president or governor doesn't mean you are a distinguished social commentator, current president included. He's a common moron.

curly

mosgood · « **Reply #43 on:** May 21, 2004, 11:00:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKcurly

I object to Vonnegut being considered a social historian. He's an interesting SF writer with a modicum of education in the sciences.

curly

Social Historian??? Social Commentator??? Social Contributer???

Which one is he? or isn't he?? or.... wtf?????

Nash · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2004, 11:02:37 PM »

at this point it behooves you to provide examples of "distinguished social commentators".... cuz I'm starting to think I don't know exactly what the hell yer talking about.