Author Topic: Ballistics/gunnery in AH2  (Read 1708 times)

Offline Sikboy

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« on: May 21, 2004, 01:44:20 PM »
I've read a few comments about gunnery being a bit more difficult in AH2, and I'm wondering if anyone else noticed this?

I haven't. I've only flown the 109G10 and the two Yaks, but I haven't noticed any degredation in my ability to hit with the guns. In fact, I nailed a Pony from about D600 (give or take, with the new icon system) which isn't a shot I'd usually even take in AH1 (because I suck). This was with the Yak-9U firing all guns. Since a big chunkie came off the plane before it exploded, I figured I must have tagged him with the ShVAK.

Anyhow, long story short, I don't notice gunnery being any more difficult with these three planes. Who out there "feels" a difference, and what plane/gun are you using?

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Offline NHawk

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2004, 01:51:57 PM »
Actually I've had the same experience in the C205.

What I think it boils down to is there is a smaller hit bubble around the plane. But, if you were a 1/2 way decent shot to begin with you'll still hit from that distance. Not that I consider myself good....just lucky. :)
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Offline Xjazz

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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2004, 01:52:49 PM »
You need more lead than in AH1. At close range eight mg's still bite well.

Offline Ghosth

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2004, 02:25:41 PM »
Part of it is that you don't see hit sprites through the dash anymore.  I always used to fire very short bursts until I saw hits.  Then would open up, that feedback is missing 80% of the time now.

Also seems like the planes are smaller.
Like I have to be much closer to see what he's doing.

Offline GtoRA2

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2004, 03:54:45 PM »
Hitting with the LA7 seems harder to me, and I flew it alot in AH1 and didnt have to much trouble killing in it.

Hitting in the mustang and F4U seems harder at long ranges, up close is not that bad, I am getting all my kills now at 200 yards or closer.


I am not sure how good the Niks guns were in AH1, I never flew it but I tried it in 2 and could not hit a level p-38 at 600 yards and I had time to ajust a few times.

Offline Kweassa

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2004, 04:18:28 PM »
I don't believe ballistics itself is changed. However, there seem to be a few factors involved in this - whether it be real, or just placebo.


* Change in hit sprites

 They are much more difficult to see when further away, and their resident time on the FE is also shorter.

 Over some distance it is difficult to be sure if you are really landing hits or not, so you are a bit reluctant to fire long bursts as compared to AH1(at least, for me it is).

 Also, the shorter resident time on the FE means the hit sprites "spark" and then quickly fade away.  In AH1, people use to say "light it up like a Christmas tree" - literally it did look like a Christmas tree because the hit sprites were shown up for too long a time, making it a bit easier to keep track of where your shots land and how.

 I've made some comparisons in how large the plane looks on one's FE over distances, but AH1 and AH2 is much same in that sense. Enemy planes looking smaller than it used to, is a placebo -  it's actually the hit sprite that is smaller. It seems that in AH1, the pilots reacted to how the large white globs of hit sprites were shown. The less visible the sprites, the less input we get in how we are firing, and thus the sensation of smaller looking planes.


* Change in tracer smoke

 Both cannon and MG rounds have changed in tracer smoke effect. While they are still enough to give a general idea of where your shots are flying, it's very different(relatively less informative) from the "grey laserbeam" in AH1.

 Ofcourse, experienced pilots already have a sense of how the rounds fly so they actually don't need tracers at all. It is a hinderance for them because the smoke trail is a hinderance rather than help.

 However, for exactly that reason, it seems that for the average pilot who needs tracers to show a general bullet path,  the tracer smoke actually becomes a huge hinderance if he sprays relentlessly. The longer you pull the trigger, the more numerous the smoky traill, and harder it becomes to aim. On the contrary, the shorter he pulls the trigger, the less rounds in the air, and less chances of hitting the target. Whichever way, it effects gunnery.

 
* Change in tracer rounds

 The size of the tracer round itself, is also smaller over distances. While this doesn't effect people who never relied on tracers, for most average pilots who use tracers it is a big minus effect since over 300~400 yards its harder to see where your rounds are going as compared to AH1.


* Hit sprites no loner visible through plane surfaces

 Like Ghosth said, they are not visible through the nose anymore. When firing during maneuvering, you have no idea whether you got the shot in or not if the lead angle was high. You have to fire, turn away, and then see if you hit him or not.


* Change in FM

 The subtle changes in the FM effects how a pilot micro-manages his plane. In my case, I've quit using combat trim completely, because the CT seems to react slower to various changes than it used to in AH1. Maybe the average pilot who uses CT, receive some penalty in fine aiming.

 Another change is how the stalls develop in AH2. A hard stick pull nearing the edge of envelope, with a sudden rudder input, will put your plane through a 'wobbling' stall rarely ever experienced before in AH1.

 Knowing such tendencies, it seems that many people pull less lead than they used to - in AH1, in a stable platform like the Spit for instance, one could very briefly yank the stick with some rudder and force a shot in, and then immediately set stick to neutral to stop stalling. In AH2, that will give you a flat spin.


* Shiny aiming reticles

 In AH2, now the aiming reticles react to the light. In the wrong angle, the reticle can be either too bright or too dark.


* Icon distances

 The icon distance, is probably the largest effect of them all. Increments of 200 yards. Unless you observe the enemy plane continuously for a certain length of time(usually like 2 seconds..), it is very difficult to perceive the relative difference in speed and distance.

 If I watch closely how fast the 'ticks' changed from 800 to 600 to 400.. judging by that I can take a guess whether the target is at 350, 300, or 250..  but ofcourse, this is a guess, and it can go wrong. Wrong guess, wrong aiming. Also, if I didn't have enough time to watch the target plane, insufficient input on how fast the distance/speed is changing.. which also makes it difficult to aim.


 ........


 These are about the factors I could come up with right now. If ballistics itself isn't changed at all, it's quite wonderous how indirect factors can effect gunnery in such ways.

 I still can get 400~500 yard shots easily, if the target plane is very predictable and slow - like for instance, when I get within 600~400 tick when the enemy plane is going vertical, I can shoot.

 But any other situation, in AH2, now I need to get within 300yards all the time to make sure that I really hit someting and not waste ammo. I also feel much more reluctant in trying a shot that goes over 400 yards. All those things, make up the change in gunnery I guess.

 But the change itself, is definately here. While trying out Beta I've gotten out from a lot of situations where I'd never have, were I in AH1. Like, a mistake in maneuvering landed a Spitfire behind my Bf109G-10 between 200~400 range. We were both slow. I actually managed to out-accelerate the Spitfire and escape unscathed, with some gentle jinking.

 In AH1, any pilot, even the newest ones, would have shot me down in that situation. The only way out of that situation in AH1, is to somehow force an overshoot, or jink very hard to avoid bullets, because slight jinking will get you killed. Well, apparently it did not get me killed in AH2.

 I've also managed to escape from a lot of .50 armed planes at ranges between 400~600, which in AH1, I'd certainly never would have, or lost some precious plane parts.

 If they ever decide to remove ammo counters(which I doubt... ).. that'd be like a finishing touch to it all.

Offline guttboy

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2004, 02:41:48 PM »
Gotta agree with all your points there Kweassa...I have found for me..that I have been having a bit of a problem with the gunnery..not bad just different....your article is great!!!  Thanks for all the time!


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Offline nopoop

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 02:46:42 PM »
Tho not easier I like the gunnery changes. That combined with the icon distance changes makes it enjoyable and new.
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Offline Director

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2004, 02:47:25 PM »
Good, I was so tired of losing a P38 to a N1K from d1.1 out.  I always felt cheated.

Offline Greebo

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2004, 03:09:38 PM »
I've got the impression that it is harder to hit someone from dead six but when you do hit them you do more damage. Deflection gunnery in the F6F seems no different than AH1 to me. I've shot wings off people trying to rope me at 1000 yards or so, was hoping it'd be harder actually. However this is pretty much a subjective thing based on a week's flying in the arena.

Offline CavemanJ

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2004, 06:17:11 PM »
The gunnery feels alot different to me.  Shots I make easily in AH1 I've been missing in AH2.  Thinking on it I think Kwea is onto something with his list of indirect factors.  In the past couple of days though, I've gotten the distinct impression that real ACM and not F16 ACM is going to become alot more important.  Overall I like the changes, just have to get used to them =)

Offline Teebone

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2004, 06:02:56 PM »
Yes i think that the 200 yard closure rate is a little bit more
 difficult for me, but in time when AH11 comes out we will all get used to it.  :eek:

Offline bozon

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2004, 03:24:54 AM »
I think the hit detection is improved compaired to AHI. this makes hitting this surfaces edge-on very hard, hence it's harder to hit from dead 6.

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Offline Eagler

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what about the rudder?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2004, 05:40:43 AM »
anyone else think that it is more sensitive now? I mean I used to be about to fish about with it and throw shots, using it to help lead. Now it seems much harder to do so, as if the arc/movement rudder input creates is now greater than before.
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Offline JustJim

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Ballistics/gunnery in AH2
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2004, 02:01:20 PM »
I still seem to get shot down quite easily, only difference is now I can't hit crap myself  :(

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