Author Topic: Operation Iceberg  (Read 706 times)

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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Operation Iceberg
« on: May 22, 2004, 10:49:53 AM »
Operation Iceberg

More...

My thoughts on the set-up:

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On 29 September 1944 B-29 bombers conducted the initial reconnaissance mission over Okinawa and its outlying islands.
 So where are or B-29s? (B-17s)

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The invasion began on 01 April 1945 when 60,000 troops (two Marine and two Army divisions) landed with little opposition.

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Although Okinawa was strongly defended by more than 100,000 troops, the Japanese chose not to defend the beaches.

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The Japanese battleship, Yamato, the largest warship ever built.....dispatched to Okinawa on 06 April 1945, with no protective air cover......Her mission: beach herself at Okinawa and fight until eliminated.

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The document ending the Battle of Okinawa was signed on what is now Kadena Air Base (home of the VFM-312) on 07 September 1945. Long before the firing stopped on Okinawa, engineers and construction battalions, following close on the heels of the combat forces, were transforming the island into a major base for the projected invasion of the Japanese home islands.


......so, is this map really about Operation Iceberg? If so, increase fleet hardness back to were is should be. Decrease SB back to where it should be. Limit N1K2J to northern inland and island bases. Abviously there were more Zeros then N1K2Js or any other variants. Enable F4U-C to complament Ki-67 (ubber Betties).  Enable B-17s from farthest island base to represent early B-29 raids. Enable P-38s from same base as B-17s.

You wont see the following in the CT as long as the N1K2J dominates the IJ Aircraft Fleet:
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On April 12th, 1945 VMF-312 had its first contact with the enemy. While flying CAP, a flight of four Corsairs, led by Capt. Dan H. Johnson, intercepted 20 Mitsubishi Zeros and four Jills (single engine torpedo-equipped attack aircraft).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 11:33:50 AM by CurtissP-6EHawk »

Offline B17Skull12

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2004, 01:28:58 PM »
I agree!
II/JG3 DGS II

Offline Grits

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2004, 01:50:23 PM »
Thats fine, but lets perk the Ki-100 and Ki-84 to make things even, oh wait, we dont have those do we?:rolleyes:

You have a minimum 20 MPH (more at most alts) advantage in speed Hawk, just do your usual "strategic extends" and you will be fine.

As long as the IJA/IJN plane set is not complete, accurate maps will no be possible.

Offline Slash27

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2004, 05:30:20 PM »
You have a minimum 20 MPH

N1K still comes out ahead.

Offline Rafe35

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2004, 05:44:08 PM »
Wait until AH2 is out then we all will discuss at CT Development Forum and there's so much too talk about Aircraft/Tanks/Ships

Rafe
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Offline Slash27

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2004, 05:56:26 PM »
HT was seen flying around in a PT boat in AH2 the other day. Rumor has it this is a new plane in develoment. Maybe will be seeing a more complete Jap planeset sooner than later. That would breathe some new life into our little playground.

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2004, 05:58:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
Thats fine, but lets perk the Ki-100 and Ki-84 to make things even, oh wait, we dont have those do we?:rolleyes:

You have a minimum 20 MPH (more at most alts) advantage in speed Hawk, just do your usual "strategic extends" and you will be fine.

As long as the IJA/IJN plane set is not complete, accurate maps will no be possible.


There is where you people dont get it! How many Ki-100s where at Okinawa and what fields were they at? Same with all IJ aircraft and what were they used for? IS this "Operation Iceberg" or just another CT PTO/N1K2J map?

Offline Grits

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 06:45:50 PM »
Ki-84:
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The FRANK later appeared in the battle for Okinawa, serving with the 101st, 102nd, and 103rd Hiko Sentais. Two new Sentais, the 111th and the 200th were activated with Hayates. The Hayates were used for long-range penetration missions, fighter sweeps, strafing, interception and dive-bombing missions with considerable success. The Ki-84 proved faster than the P-51D Mustang and the P-47D Thunderbolt at all but the highest altitudes. At medium altitudes, the FRANK was so fast that it was essentially immune from interception. The climb rate was exceptionally good, 16,400 feet being attained in 5 minutes 54 seconds, which was superior to that of any opposing Allied fighters. The Ki-84 had a close resemblance to the Ki-43 Hayabusa, which caused many Allied fighter pilots to confuse it with the earlier Nakajima fighter during the stress of combat. Many an American pilot, having sighted a Japanese fighter he believed to be a Ki-43 and salivating at the prospect of a quick and easy kill, suddenly found he had latched onto a different bird entirely. The Ki-84 even did well at the fighter-bomber role. On April 15, 1945, a flight of eleven Hayates from the 100th Sentai made a surprise air attack on American airfields on Okinawa, damaging or destroying a substantial number of aircraft on the ground. However, eight of the Hayates were destroyed in the attack, and one made a forced landing on a small islet near Kyushu.
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and

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The Hayate (gale) had the code name Frank and was the army's best production fighter of World War II. The type was planned as successor to the Ki-43 with better protection and heavier armament. The Hayate first flew in March 1943 and model Ki-84-I began to enter service in the summer 1944 powered by Ha-45 engine and equipped with four 20 mm cannons (or 2 cannons and 2 machine guns). The Ki-84-Ic bomber destroyer version had 2 x 20 mm and 2 x 30 mm cannons. The performance of Hayate was equal to, or higher than that of the Allies' fighters. The aircraft was said to be "the decisive fighter to turn the fate of the Greater East Asia", but it was a bit to late for that. Later on Nakajima introduced Ki-84-II variant with partially wood structure and free of some problems present in the earlier version. It made its first campaign over Central China and was then used during the Battle of Leyte and the Battle of Okinawa. Hayate was also used to intercept B-29 bombers over Japan. Total production was 3514 aircrafts including experimental variants such as: Ki-84-III turbocharged high-altitude fighter, Ki-106 all-wood airframe, Ki-116 with Mitsubishi Ha-33 engine and Ki-117 - another high-altitude version. The total number of aircrafts built puts Hayate next to the Zero or Hayabusa, but it is the largest number of planes built in about a year in the Japanese aviation history.[/b]
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Don't cry about the Niki being in the set until the Ki-84 is added. The Ki-84 was in Okinawa, in LARGE numbers,  and since it would be even better than the Niki its an acceptable trade, yes? Personally, I cant WAIT for the Ki-84 to arrive, I might actually get to fly the F4U once in a while, since all the gang-banging score potatos will flock to it like they do the La-7  now.

If you ask me (you didnt), the 190A-8 would be a pretty good replacement for the Frank in the short term, even though the Ki-84's performance would be much better, it would be close enough and you could severly limit/remove the Niki. I doubt anyone on either side would find that acceptable however for a myriad of reasons.

Soooo, in summation, suck it up and play with what we have because a truly accurate set with the correct planes would be worse than what we have now.

Offline Rafe35

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2004, 06:57:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
There is where you people dont get it! How many Ki-100s where at Okinawa and what fields were they at? Same with all IJ aircraft and what were they used for? IS this "Operation Iceberg" or just another CT PTO/N1K2J map?

CurtissP-6EHawk,

There's alot more different Japanese aircraft than Ki-100 and I can list the Japanese aircraft(I can't list them all but i'll tell what they use them for) where before invasion start:


Mitsubishi A6M ("Zeke")

(Kamaikaze)

Mitsubishi G4M2 ("Betty")

The G4M2 was adapted to carry a single piloted Baka with the bomb bay doors removed and shackles fitted.  Slowed down by the weight of the one-man rocket plane, the G4M became even easier meat than usual for the deadly American Navy fighters, destruction of the Japanese crew with their aircraftand its payload often being achieved with little difficulty.  On March 21, 1945, 16 Bettys were shot down on the first operational Ohka sortie before they could even launch.

Nakajima B6N2 ("Jill")

(Kamaikazes)

Nakajima Ki-27 ("Nate")

(Kamaikzes)

Yokosuka MXY-7 ("Ohka")

April 12, 1945. On the same day US President Franklin D. Roosevelt dies, the destroyer USS Mannert L. Abele is sunk near Okinawa by a Japanese pilot flying a rocket-powered Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) suicide attack aircraft. The Abele is the first ship ever to be sunk by a piloted bomb.


There's so many Japanese aircraft on Okinawa before invaison.

Rafe
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Offline o0Stream140o

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2004, 06:58:21 PM »
The Hamster wheel continues....

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2004, 07:24:17 PM »
For some reason this map seems to bring out the worst in some of us.

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2004, 09:14:39 PM »
What Rafe said, most were used to attack the ships. They killed themselves and distroyed the planes. I did not say the US planes were better, I know better. I said this is a bad set-up based on how the game is played. Now, once again, is this Operation Iceberg or just another PTO furball map?

...and grits, I flew the Ki-84 and Ki-43 in Warbirds and loved them both.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 09:17:15 PM by CurtissP-6EHawk »

Offline Grits

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2004, 11:11:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
I said this is a bad set-up based on how the game is played.


I couldn't agree more. Its unfortunate, the PTO is the theater that I like the most from an historical point. My Dad was a Marine, so I like F4F's and F4U's, the Corsair is my favorite plane by far in the real world, yet I hate the late war Pac setups from a gameplay standpoint. Its quite difficult hating plane sets because they include the plane you would most want to own in real life.

Offline Arlo

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2004, 02:09:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits


Don't cry about the Niki being in the set until the Ki-84 is added. The Ki-84 was in Okinawa, in LARGE numbers,  and since it would be even better than the Niki its an acceptable trade, yes? Personally, I cant WAIT for the Ki-84 to arrive, I might actually get to fly the F4U once in a while, since all the gang-banging score potatos will flock to it like they do the La-7  now.

Soooo, in summation, suck it up and play with what we have because a truly accurate set with the correct planes would be worse than what we have now.


In a different thread you said the setup sucks, my friend (and you know you're my friend). Sup?

Offline Slash27

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Operation Iceberg
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2004, 04:15:50 AM »
For some reason this map seems to bring out the worst in some of us.


GO TO HELL YOU SACK OF MONKEY SH..................... j/k:D



You're right though. I'm not exactly sure why, but PAC set ups have a history of nasty fights on the BBS. Both sides always feel like the other has the advantage. Watch the country channel on the text buffer one busy night for a little bit.  Then switch side and watch the other. One side griping about the wuss runners in F4Us, the other *****ing about the HOing phacephag* N1K drivers. The wuss is thinking " Well im not gonna get slow and turn with him, screw it  Ill extend." And the phacephag thinks, "Well, I'll never catch him, I'd better take what ever shot I can get" Neither one is wrong, but it does get boring and leads to frustration. But what can you do?






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