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Author Topic: things are going to get uglier if this is true  (Read 638 times)

Offline capt. apathy

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« on: May 22, 2004, 11:29:57 PM »
C&P from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5039808/

washington post
By Scott Higham, Joe Stephens and Josh White
Updated: 11:29 p.m. ET May 22, 2004

A military lawyer for a soldier charged in the Abu Ghraib abuse case stated that a captain at the prison said the highest-ranking U.S. military officer in Iraq was present during some  "interrogations and/or allegations of the prisoner abuse," according to a recording of a military hearing obtained by The Washington Post.

The lawyer, Capt. Robert Shuck, said he was told that Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez and other senior military officers were aware of what was taking place on Tier 1A of Abu Ghraib. Shuck is assigned to defend Staff Sgt. Ivan L. "Chip" Frederick II of the 372nd Military Police Company. During an April 2 hearing that was open to the public, Shuck said the company commander, Capt. Donald J. Reese, was prepared to testify in exchange for immunity. The military prosecutor questioned Shuck about what Reese would say under oath.

"Are you saying that Captain Reese is going to testify that General Sanchez was there and saw this going on?" asked Capt. John McCabe, the military prosecutor.
 
"That's what he told me," Shuck said. "I am an officer of the court, sir, and I would not lie. I have got two children at home. I'm not going to risk my career."
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Offline DiabloTX

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2004, 11:35:01 PM »
"You can't handle the truth!"

-Col. Nathan Jessup


Yeap, this could get real ugly.
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Offline Nash

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2004, 11:48:23 PM »
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer
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Offline txmx

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2004, 11:53:31 PM »
I think the whole thing is stupid!
Stupid that a few morons thought it would be funny to bully handcuffed prisoners.

Stupid that the press has ran with this like Walter Payton towards the end zone.

Stupid that why in the world cant they just STFU about it and go about there buisness.

The whole mess has made the USA look like a bunch of monkeys humping a football.


Like a smelly terd from a weekend of beer drinking we need to flush this mess and move on.
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Offline DmdBT

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2004, 11:59:18 PM »
Thank you Mr. President!!   :aok

"Mission Accomplished"...

... someone should have turned the cv.
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Offline Jester

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2004, 12:43:05 AM »
Well lets look at his in perspective.................. ..

THEM: These are the "nice guys" that have had been running a brutal DICTATORSHIP in their own country, have invaded or tried to invade not one but THREE neighboring countries and gassed part of his own population because they weren't from the same tribe.

US: Agreed, naive at times but generally out to do good. We have went out to help save Europe twice in wars - rebuilt or refinanced the rebuilding of the same enemy's after it was over and generally propped up everyone till they could do so themselves and lastly - are responsable for many of the countries in the world from becoming Communist vacation spots.(you remember those fun loving guys don't you?). Plus still today we are supporting half the world.
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THEM:Liberated them from one of the worst dictators ever and they show their thanks by shooting and bombing their own countrymen and killing our soldiers.

US:Locked some of the guys that are bombing and shooting up THEIR OWN COUNTRY in one of THEIR OWN JAILS. Actually treating them like prisioners and not lodging them at the Ritz Bagdad.
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THEM: Cut off the head of an inicent civilian and video tape it for all to see.

US: Tape some guys making fun of prisioners. (See above for why they are in prision).
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THEM: Like to kill our soldiers and drag their bodies around behind vehicles.

US: Made them wear womens underwear during interigation.
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You will forgive me but in the light of our soldiers getting killed everyday over there in some Pi$$ Hole I just don't see the REALLY BIG FAT HARRY DEAL!!! If they want to be that way to our guys that went over there to liberate their Pi$$ Pot country then they deserve everything they get. Think our guys would have been as well off if the situations were reversed?

Thanks to what passes for the Press in this country these days and BOTH useless tards that are running for President this incident has blown into something straight out of the "Springer Show from Hell."  :rolleyes:
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Offline DiabloTX

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2004, 12:48:35 AM »
I agree with you Jester 100% but if it's true that a Flag Officer was present at the alleged abuses and did nothing to stop it, well, that really bothers me.  

I'd like to think that I am wearing the uniform to help the helpless, but maybe I am being too naive about that.
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Offline Nash

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2004, 12:59:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jester
We have went out to help save Europe twice in wars - rebuilt or refinanced the rebuilding of the same enemy's after it was over and generally propped up everyone till they could do so themselves and lastly - are responsable for many of the countries in the world from becoming Communist vacation spots


Amazing how fast things can go down the sh !tter, eh?
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Offline Staga

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2004, 01:20:39 AM »
pssst Jester; read some news....
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Offline Jester

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2004, 01:23:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
pssst Jester; read some news....



psssst, get out of the sauna - it's baking your brain.
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Offline capt. apathy

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2004, 01:32:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by txmx
I think the whole thing is stupid!
Stupid that a few morons thought it would be funny to bully handcuffed prisoners.

Stupid that the press has ran with this like Walter Payton towards the end zone.

Stupid that why in the world cant they just STFU about it and go about there buisness.

The whole mess has made the USA look like a bunch of monkeys humping a football.


Like a smelly terd from a weekend of beer drinking we need to flush this mess and move on.


blame the lower ranking MP's and move on?  IF (and I can't stress the word 'if' enough)orders or knowledge of this treatment did come from somewhere higher up than a handful soldiers, then we owe it to our men in uniform to find out just how far it went.

support for American fighting men doesn't mean hanging them out to dry to cover up for their superiors.

we don't need to move on until this is thoroughly investigated.
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Offline Nash

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2004, 01:38:06 AM »
Leave no one behind!

The buck stops here!

A lot on the line... Interesting to see what they do with it.
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Offline Thrawn

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2004, 01:45:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jester Well lets look at his in perspective.................. ..



Quote
US:Locked some of the guys that are bombing and shooting up THEIR OWN COUNTRY in one of THEIR OWN JAILS. Actually treating them like prisioners and not lodging them at the Ritz Bagdad.


Actually the International Commitee of the Red Cross has reported that according to coallition military intelligence,  70% to 90% of Iraqi prisoners prisoner where arrest by mistake.


Quote
THEM: Cut off the head of an inicent civilian and video tape it for all to see.

US: Tape some guys making fun of prisioners. (See above for why they are in prision).


And this is were it the equivocation leads.  It's not torture, it's abuse.  It's not abuse, it's hazing.  It's not hazing, it's making fun of.

I imagine that if your son, or father were mistakenly arrested, then beaten, sodomized with a broom stick, had the gaurds attack them with a dog, treatened with rape and/or electricution, treated like filth, or beaten to death, you would say they were just made fun of.


Thanks for you perpective, but it doesn't represent anywhere near an accurate picture of what went on.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2004, 01:49:14 AM by Thrawn »
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Offline Nash

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2004, 01:50:22 AM »
There's gonna be a pretty heavy body count (read:dead) come out of this.

The frat hazing goof dismisal is gonna look pretty weak.

Phase one: ridicule... (here we are)

Phase two: backlash...  (we're approaching that)

Phase three: act like it was obvious all along, and justify it. (brace yourselves).
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Offline -tronski-

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things are going to get uglier if this is true
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2004, 02:11:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jester
You will forgive me but in the light of our soldiers getting killed everyday over there in some Pi$$ Hole I just don't see the REALLY BIG FAT HARRY DEAL!!! If they want to be that way to our guys that went over there to liberate their Pi$$ Pot country then they deserve everything they get. Think our guys would have been as well off if the situations were reversed?

Thanks to what passes for the Press in this country these days and BOTH useless tards that are running for President this incident has blown into something straight out of the "Springer Show from Hell."  :rolleyes:


We are supposedly in Iraq because ...including the one where we were aparently Liberating those from the a regime that tortured it's own people, and now the liberators are found to be doing the same thing...

It is a ridiculous notion to simply shrug our shoulders and carry on like it doesn't mean anything and play the lesser of two evils card

 Tronsky
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