Author Topic: Interesting Statistics on British gun control  (Read 1027 times)

Offline Steve

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« on: May 23, 2004, 04:09:56 AM »
Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in January 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Yet, serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

Source:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120638,00.html

Meanwhile, gun crimes in Britain are increasing. According to London's authoritative Sunday Times, the number of firearm offenses in Britain increased almost 40 percent from 4,903 in 1997 to 6,843 in 2000. These are still small figures in comparison to the United States, but the trend is the opposite of what might be expected.

Source:


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/6/22/63817.shtml


England and Wales now have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations.

Source:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30365


Gun control does not work.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2004, 04:15:47 AM by Steve »
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Offline beet1e

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2004, 06:13:16 AM »
:rolleyes:

This thread is just a lame troll to deflect attention from this...


Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2004, 06:20:15 AM »
Can you imagine just how bad it's going to be in November when Mr Bush gets tossed out of the White House? The horror!!

Offline Replicant

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2004, 07:45:00 AM »
I'm happy with no guns, afterall hardly anyone had them before and even less have them now.  If people want to own illegal guns then so be it, they'll obtain them through illegal sources.  I feel safer knowing that some disturbed loony who caresses their guns isn't going to point it at me.  I'd sooner someone attack me with a knife than with a gun - at least you have a fighting chance against someone wielding a knife.

Those that still require guns, e.g. farmers, gamekeepers etc., still use shotguns, revolvers etc. for their work.

BTW Firearm offences include high powered air-rifles that are over the 12lb ft limit.
NEXX

Offline lazs2

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2004, 09:19:24 AM »
replicant... well.. since you are frieghtened of guns then I guess that is good enough reason to ban them for everyone else.  Face it... you disarmed yourselves and put the weak and law abiding at the mercy of the strong and lawless...  What will you do when you get a little older and can't defend yourself against a couple of 6 footers with knives and clubs?

oh... and if you get shot by a .22 caliber rifle at 1,000 fps (air rifle) you will indeed have been shot... maybe dead.

lazs

Offline strk

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2004, 10:56:18 AM »
do you have any better sources?  Fox, Newsmax and WorldNews arent exactly known for their fair and accurate reporting, catch phrases aside

what is next?  drudge or limbaugh as a source?

how about an english source, or the actuall publication of the report?

Offline lazs2

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2004, 11:33:14 AM »
strk.. fox is no more or less accurate than cnn.. not saying much I know.

Everything I have seen shows british crime on the rise.   Gun crime is also on the rise.   you can blame it on whatever you want but the fact that guns were banned for law abiding citizens didn not make those citizens any safer....

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Offline Gunslinger

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2004, 11:33:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by strk
do you have any better sources?  Fox, Newsmax and WorldNews arent exactly known for their fair and accurate reporting, catch phrases aside

what is next?  drudge or limbaugh as a source?

how about an english source, or the actuall publication of the report?


WOW libral tactic #3....attack the sources credibility to completly shift focus and ignore the content

Offline Replicant

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2004, 11:47:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
replicant... well.. since you are frieghtened of guns then I guess that is good enough reason to ban them for everyone else.  Face it... you disarmed yourselves and put the weak and law abiding at the mercy of the strong and lawless...  What will you do when you get a little older and can't defend yourself against a couple of 6 footers with knives and clubs?

oh... and if you get shot by a .22 caliber rifle at 1,000 fps (air rifle) you will indeed have been shot... maybe dead.

lazs


Thought you'd like that :)

I don't make the laws but I'm quite content with them.  BTW this is Britain's laws not America's, it's none of your business whether you like it or not because it simply has nothing to do with you.  Britain has never had a gun culture, the regular Police force are still not armed, and the only general people that own weapons are the military and farmers.

Besides to say I am "frightened of guns then I guess that is good enough reason to ban them for everyone else" is purely weak since you don't know me at all.  I had hoped to join a gun club myself having fired .303 Lee Enfields and pistols when I was younger but the laws were changed a couple of times, notably in 1987 when I was just 13 years old.  I would have loved to have owned some guns and enjoy, what was, a strong sport.  Times change though and you simply just get on with your life.  

If people do choose to own a firearm then they simply join a gun club.  Not all weapons were outlawed.  Unlike the US there isn't anywhere that you can really use them apart from on the firing range and there was never anywhere to hunt with them.  What's the point of a large calibre weapon when the only thing you can do is shoot a paper/metal target?  Few people could keep their firearms at home unless it was certified safe and that all ammunition was kept locked elsewhere in the household.  The majority were held in gun clubs or the local police station.  Using the weapon for defence would most likely end up with you being found guilty and being prosecuted.  As mentioned before, shotguns are still used throughout the UK (shotguns being included as one of the firearms offenses although you don't require a firearms certifcate but a shotgun certificate).  People still enjoy game hunting too, unless you expected us to take a M60 out to shoot a few pheasants? :)

Face it... you disarmed yourselves and put the weak and law abiding at the mercy of the strong and lawless...  

Well to start with all automatic weapons have always been banned.  In subsequent years higher calibre guns were banned after loss of life to nutters thinking they were Rambo and deciding to have a killing spree.

So, disarmed ourselves, well, Joe Public were never really armed in the first place.  

Putting the weak and law abiding at the mercy of the strong and lawless, well, as mentioned above, anyone attempting to defend themselves with a firearm would most likely be prosecuted more than the actual offender.  That's Britain's laws for you whether you like it or not.  We don't particularly like it too because defending with any other form of weapon you're made to look guilty too.  We're all living in a country full of 'criminals are innocent if they're attacked whilst performing a crime'.

You have to remember, America's population have the right to bear arms, we don't and never have done in recent times.  Arguing about such things is irrelevent because our laws won't change (to allow) and I very much doubt your laws will change to remove them.  It's part of your culture, it's never been part of our culture.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2004, 11:52:13 AM by Replicant »
NEXX

Offline Thrawn

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2004, 11:53:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
WOW libral tactic #3....attack the sources credibility to completly shift focus and ignore the content



Yeah?  And what the heck does your statement have to do with Michael Moore winning the Palme d'Or?  That's right...nothing.  :aok



Honestly though, that tactic is used by people from all spectrums, neither liberal or conservative have exclusive rights to it.

Offline Gunslinger

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2004, 11:55:52 AM »
WTF does some stupid award for a dumb film I wont see have to do with this thread....that's right nothing?

Offline strk

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2004, 12:25:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
WTF does some stupid award for a dumb film I wont see have to do with this thread....that's right nothing?


imo if you want to oppose the film you should see it because it gives any argument you make more credibility

re the sources - I dont ask for sources too often, and in this case I think if the claim is true it would have better documentation.  

FOX gets the facts wrong too, and they are without doubt a mouthpiece for the GOP.  For example the 70% some percent of FOX viewers that believed there was a pre-Iraqi AlQueda link that involved 9-11, even after Bush* himself stated there was no such link.

I don't mean to make the source of articles and such a partisan issue, otherwise I would post links from Buzzflash or DU which would mean about the same.

I'm not for more gun laws, although I am for enforcing the ones we have (except I do not like the mandatory sentences for any crimes).  Fundamentally I do not have a problem with having to register weapons because I think it will help keep them out of the hands of criminals and would make it easy for police to confiscate any unregistered weapon.

All that aside - I have also heard and seen good sources that either homicides or gun-related fatalities are far lower in the UK than the US, per capita.  

I own a Smith and Wesson 9mil but I do not have any fears that the government is going to take it because I trust in the constitution.  I would not have a problem with registering my weapon.

Offline Sandman

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2004, 12:43:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
WOW libral tactic #3....attack the sources credibility to completly shift focus and ignore the content


That's hardly an exclusive "liberal" tactic around here.
sand

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2004, 12:44:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
WTF does some stupid award for a dumb film I wont see have to do with this thread....that's right nothing?


It's going to change the country you live in.

Offline Steve

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Interesting Statistics on British gun control
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2004, 01:49:08 PM »
Quote
BTW this is Britain's laws not America's,


Replicant, forgive me.  My post wasn't intended to discuss anything but that I do not feel gun control works.  It was in NO way intended to be a slight on Great Britian, it's laws, or it's people. My apologies to anyone who perceived it as such and I hope this clears it up.
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