Author Topic: Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.  (Read 1409 times)

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2004, 01:02:01 AM »
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
For whatever reason txmx loves to justify the torture that went on. Just another example of his high christian morles, and the fact he does not see the iraqis as humans.



Nope I just see it as more election year  BS from the Dems to discredite the republicans.

Not to say ugly things did not happen there Im sure they did.
But on a much smaller scale that what we are being lead to believe.

Again this IS in a war zone  and i would imagine it was there job to weed out who the bad guys were form all of the people they rounded up.

I find it hard to believe having served that our troops would just kill prisoners for the pure hell of it.
There must be a reason behind it.
After all what does any of them gain by killing these prisoners ?

I mean besides getting caught and probably being hung over it?


Yes martha the army can Hang you for certain crimes so why would these soldiers just for the sake of doing it kill these dudes?

I think there is more to this than any of us know.

And the fact that I am willing to give the benifite of the doubt to the AMERICAN soldier over some Iraqi  should not come as any big new flash.

After all I am an American.

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2004, 01:04:50 AM »
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
it stuns me as a Christian, to see others who profess to be Christians, but are OK with things like torture, murder,


LOL tell it to the catholic church and the spaniards duirg the inquisitions.

Or for more resent history tell it to the Muslims who just lopped off the head of a civilian.

Offline Gunslinger

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2004, 01:10:53 AM »
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
For whatever reason txmx loves to justify the torture that went on. Just another example of his high christian morles, and the fact he does not see the iraqis as humans.


for whatever reason stabby loves putting words into peoples mouth's and then bashes their faith.

Offline txmx

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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2004, 01:12:52 AM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
for whatever reason stabby loves putting words into peoples mouth's and then bashes their faith.


Thats ok Gunslinger he just needs a little more treadwear under his tires and he will see things in a different light LOL.

Hey I knew everything when I was young too.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2004, 01:17:49 AM »
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Originally posted by txmx

Hey I knew everything when I was young too.


Dont forget bullet proof too.  I remember the day I realized my own mortality very specifically.....yes youth is waisted on the young.

Offline capt. apathy

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2004, 01:20:25 AM »
so you're OK with it because others have done it and used their faith to try and justify?  kinda lame and not very original.

think for yourself some time, it's very liberating.

  you claim to be a Christian (even put a baptist website in your sig), have you read the gospel?  ever find anything in there that is anywhere close to a parallel to the statements you make here?

so, maybe I missed something, I have a fairly high reading comprehension but occasionally I do miss a thing or 2.

 so educate me-  where in the Gospel (thats the Christian part of the Bible for those who don't know) does it say it's OK to treat your fellow man this way?

if you can't find it (and I really think you won't), which is the real you?  are you claiming to be a Christian, but not really believing?  or are you just saying the crap you say because it makes you feel more patriotic to just agree with whatever the republicans tell you to believe?

or do you not really know who you are or what you believe, and just say whatever you think will make you sound important and informed at the time.

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2004, 01:30:09 AM »
The Bible Is full of killing and adultry and sodomy you name it and It was in the Bible first.

God told Abraham to kill His own Son remeber that part.

Kinda sick but it's in there.

But to get to the point I am trying to make Is I dont think we are being told the whole story folks.

Can you tell me why any of these soldiers would just for kicks kill any of these prisoners?

It just dont make any sense does it?
I dont have much faith that we the American public will ever know the full truth in this matter.

Now If you feel ok with everything you hear from the press and polititions

Then thats ok and your right.
But I am one of those types that will question everything LOL drove my parents nuts when I was a kid always asking WHY !

And Again I am saying I have more faith in our troops to beilieve that they would beat to death for no reason unarmed prisoners.

If that Is the case then we need to have a good hard look at our youth dont we!

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2004, 01:44:56 AM »
first off the Abraham story, and the violent parts of the Bible are all in the old testament (pre-Jesus.  again for those who don't know this stuff).  the new testament, or Gospel relates to Christianity, the old testament is there to let us know where we came form, mostly a history lesson.  with Jesus and the new testament, came a new law.  the religion formed from this new law is Christianity and it doesn't fit well with the kind of behavior many of it's aledged supporters are advocating.


as far as this-
Quote
Can you tell me why any of these soldiers would just for kicks kill any of these prisoners?


maybe it wasn't for kicks.  maybe they where beating them because they where ordered to.  maybe they were following orders and those orders evolved into dehumanizing the captives, and this led to punishments and abuses that went to far.  

who knows at this point. and thats why we need this investigation, not for "election year politics"  but because if you don't find out why it happened you can't stop it from happening again.  

dropping the whole thing and wishing it would go away won't solve anything.  banning cameras and stemming the flow of info from these prisons, just makes it that much harder to detect next time.

I thank God for the courage of the soldier who exposed the story, and the fact that he was able to have photos to back him up.

he's a hero and should be decorated for his courage.

ya, too bad we didn't ban cameras from the start.  that way the guy could have been discredited, called a liar, and the abuse and murder could have gone on uninterrupted. :rolleyes:

this process of investigation and exposure is distasteful to say the least, and very embarrassing for some, and it should be.  but it's also absolutely necessary, that it be done, and be done as openly and publicly as possible.

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2004, 01:55:30 AM »
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
first off the Abraham story, and the violent parts of the Bible are all in the old testament (pre-Jesus.  again for those who don't know this stuff).  the new testament, or Gospel relates to Christianity, the old testament is there to let us know where we came form, mostly a history lesson.  with Jesus and the new testament, came a new law.  the religion formed from this new law is Christianity and it doesn't fit well with the kind of behavior many of it's aledged supporters are advocating.






So If it's from the old testament It dont count?
And If It happend before Jesus came along It aint that big of a deal?

And the new testament Is to superced the old one?

Well I tend to struggle with it all anyway but I still put a lot of weight in the old testament as with the ten commandments and all.

And I forgot what It Is called But in the Military If you are given an unl;awfull order you do not have to follow it.
In fact you are duty bound to report said order.

So I can only see people following these orders that wanted to.

Wich if the case Is in it self SICK.
The Real hero would have been the soldier who would have refused the order and reported the officer giving it.

Now that would have taken some king sizied eggs.

Someone look up that part of the UCMJ I remeber bits and pieces of it but not with enogh clarity to quote it here.

Offline StabbyTheIcePic

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« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2004, 02:11:27 AM »
The dems are just poloticking? Man, you buy into the right wing BS very easy.  People kill and beat people every day for very little to no reason. The fact that it went on for so long in the pow prisons is why this is a scandle. If you cannot face facts thats cool, i guess. I doubt the MPs even saw the pows as even human. It is pretty standard military doctrine to dehumanize the enemy.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2004, 03:33:32 AM »
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Can you tell me why any of these soldiers would just for kicks kill any of these prisoners?


The world are getting more and more perverted. Im not suprised if they did it "djust for kicks"....

Why do YOU think they did it then?

Regards.
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2004, 03:46:55 AM »
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Originally posted by txmx
Tell ya what when they fly a couple of jumbo jets into downtown Helsinki  then your opnion might mean something .
Otherwise It's just more Gas escaping from europe.


You just forget it needs a motive to do something like that.
Terrorists didn't ram into WTC just because they hate freedom loving god fearing people, they had some other motives.
Must have sumthin ta do with Israel 'n troops in middle east.
I'm shuuure those n^10 US vetos in UN for Israelis benefit in everything mustn't look good in middle east..

Amazingly the latest UN resolution or something was NOT vetoed by US goverment, unique thing to happen. :eek:

Offline capt. apathy

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2004, 03:53:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by txmx
So If it's from the old testament It dont count?
And If It happend before Jesus came along It aint that big of a deal?

And the new testament Is to superced the old one?

Well I tend to struggle with it all anyway but I still put a lot of weight in the old testament as with the ten commandments and all.



the old testament is mostly there for history.

it's not that it's not a big deal but it's history, there is a lot of wisdom there, but when you find conflicts between old and new testament go with what it says in the new (unless you're a Jew)

yes the new testament is to supersede the old one.  we no longer make blood sacrifices, or follow most of the Jewish law.

the old testament is the Jewish bible.  the new testament is the part pertaining to Christianity.

if you want a quick summation of the new testament,  I think one of my favorite song writers (John Prine) summed it up pretty well in a line from an old song of his (it's an oldy from about 35 yrs ago, seems it's become relevant again.  it's called "you're flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore")  it goes like this -

Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
 
if you get some time you should try reading some of that Bible.  start with Mathew and work your way forward from there.
a guy who puts a link to a Christian organization, ought to know what he's promoting.  especially since many of the opinions you express here don't seem to fit.

  not that you're alone in that, our president claims to be a Christian too and it seems to me that he's more than willing to have people kill and die for profit.

Offline txmx

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« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2004, 03:09:50 PM »
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
It is pretty standard military doctrine to dehumanize the enemy.


WOW you know alot about the Military for one who has never served.

Offline StabbyTheIcePic

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« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2004, 03:11:12 PM »
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Originally posted by txmx
WOW you know alot about the Military for one who has never served.


It is fairly easy to pick up a book and read.