Author Topic: Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.  (Read 1408 times)

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2004, 03:12:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
the old testament is mostly there for history.

it's not that it's not a big deal but it's history, there is a lot of wisdom there, but when you find conflicts between old and new testament go with what it says in the new (unless you're a Jew)

yes the new testament is to supersede the old one.  we no longer make blood sacrifices, or follow most of the Jewish law.

the old testament is the Jewish bible.  the new testament is the part pertaining to Christianity.

if you want a quick summation of the new testament,  I think one of my favorite song writers (John Prine) summed it up pretty well in a line from an old song of his (it's an oldy from about 35 yrs ago, seems it's become relevant again.  it's called "you're flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore")  it goes like this -

Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
 
if you get some time you should try reading some of that Bible.  start with Mathew and work your way forward from there.
a guy who puts a link to a Christian organization, ought to know what he's promoting.  especially since many of the opinions you express here don't seem to fit.

  not that you're alone in that, our president claims to be a Christian too and it seems to me that he's more than willing to have people kill and die for profit.



Well you seem to have hit the nail on the head.
My birth parent where jews.
I was adopted and raised babtist.

But my I tend to believe more along the lines of the Jew.

Offline Gunslinger

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2004, 03:27:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
It is fairly easy to pick up a book and read.



haahahaahhaahahahahhaah CAUGH CAUGH

ha ha HA HA HA H ha ha ha   (CLEANS OFF MONITOR)

HA HA HA HA HA HA

:rofl

that's the funniest thing I've heard all day....seriously LMAO....
"all  you ever wanted to know about the military by reading a book" -by stabby

Oh You kill me :rofl

Offline xrtoronto

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2004, 06:14:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by txmx
Atleast they where not having electrodes hooked up to there nutt sacs !
 



you must read more before making such statements txmx!

On page 3 from Washington Post is just one article where this is statements that there was electrodes attached to genitals in the prison by US personel.

Washington Post (go to page 3)

There are 33 (last time i looked) individual investigations of beating to death inmates at the prison by US troops.

Washington Post also has pictures of ppl being sodomized by US troops with night-stick and even a flourescent tube...one picture they show is some prisoner covered in feces and being made to do stuff...and tons of pics and videos of prisoners being made to masturbate in front of each other and US troops while being filmed.

I think you may agree this is a bit more serious than having someone put panites on your head?

IT is SO sick, it's hard to comprehend!

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2004, 06:16:15 PM »
you have to register to that RAG wich i wont do .
So would you just post the article?

Offline xrtoronto

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« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2004, 06:18:25 PM »
just checked..it works for me txmx

Offline xrtoronto

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2004, 06:19:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by txmx
you have to register to that RAG wich i wont do .
So would you just post the article?



doesn't require registration....NYTimes does..but not the Post

If you still have problems...i will C&P the article for you!

Offline capt. apathy

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2004, 06:21:52 PM »
I tried your link too, it asks for registration.

Offline txmx

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« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2004, 06:22:26 PM »
Yeah when I click on the link I get a registration form

Offline xrtoronto

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« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2004, 06:27:15 PM »
C&P  PAGE 1 OF 2

New Details of Prison Abuse Emerge
Abu Ghraib Detainees' Statements Describe Sexual Humiliation And Savage Beatings

By Scott Higham and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 21, 2004; Page A01

Previously secret sworn statements by detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq describe in raw detail abuse that goes well beyond what has been made public, adding allegations of prisoners being ridden like animals, sexually fondled by female soldiers and forced to retrieve their food from toilets.

The fresh allegations of prison abuse are contained in statements taken from 13 detainees shortly after a soldier reported the incidents to military investigators in mid-January. The detainees said they were savagely beaten and repeatedly humiliated sexually by American soldiers working on the night shift at Tier 1A in Abu Ghraib during the holy month of Ramadan, according to copies of the statements obtained by The Washington Post.

The statements provide the most detailed picture yet of what took place on the cellblock. Some of the detainees described being abused as punishment or discipline after they were caught fighting or with a prohibited item. Some said they were pressed to denounce Islam or were force-fed pork and liquor. Many provided graphic details of how they were sexually humiliated and assaulted, threatened with rape, and forced to masturbate in front of female soldiers.

"They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees," said Hiadar Sabar Abed Miktub al-Aboodi, detainee No. 13077. "And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy. After that, they took us to our cells, took the mattresses out and dropped water on the floor and they made us sleep on our stomachs on the floor with the bags on our head and they took pictures of everything."

The prisoners also provided accounts of how some of the now-famous photographs were staged, including the pyramid of hooded, naked prisoners. Eight of the detainees identified by name one particular soldier at the center of the abuse investigation, Spec. Charles A. Graner Jr., a member of the 372nd Military Police Company from Cresaptown, Md. Five others described abuse at the hands of a solider who matches Graner's description.

"They said we will make you wish to die and it will not happen," said Ameen Saeed Al-Sheik, detainee No. 151362. "They stripped me naked. One of them told me he would rape me. He drew a picture of a woman to my back and makes me stand in shameful position holding my buttocks."

The Pentagon is investigating the allegations, a spokesman said last night.

"There are a number of lines of inquiry that are being taken with respect to allegations of abuse of detainees in U.S. custody," Bryan Whitman said. "There is still more to know and to be learned and new things to be discovered."

Threats of Death and Assault

The disclosures come from a new cache of documents, photographs and videos obtained by The Post that are part of evidence assembled by Army investigators putting together criminal cases against soldiers at Abu Ghraib. So far, seven MPs have been charged with brutalizing detainees at the prison, and one pleaded guilty Wednesday.

The sworn statements, taken in Baghdad between Jan. 16 and Jan. 21, span 65 pages. Each statement begins with a handwritten account in Arabic that is signed by the detainee, followed by a typewritten translation by U.S. military contractors. The shortest statement is a single paragraph; the longest exceeds two single-spaced typewritten pages.

While military investigators interviewed the detainees separately, many of them recalled the same event or pattern of events and procedures in Tier 1A -- a block reserved for prisoners who were thought to possess intelligence that could help thwart the insurgency in Iraq, find Saddam Hussein or locate weapons of mass destruction. Military intelligence officers took over the cellblock last October and were using MPs to help "set the conditions" for interrogations, according to an investigative report complied by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba. Several MPs have since said in statements and through their attorneys that they were roughing up detainees at the direction of U.S. military intelligence officers.

Most of the detainees said in the statements that they were stripped upon their arrival to Tier 1A, forced to wear women's underwear, and repeatedly humiliated in front of one another and American soldiers. They also described beatings and threats of death and sexual assault if they did not cooperate with U.S. interrogators.

Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, detainee No. 151108, told investigators that when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib last year, he was forced to strip, put on a hood and wear rose-colored panties with flowers on them. "Most of the days I was wearing nothing else," he said in his statement.

Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures.

The fresh allegations of prison abuse are contained in statements taken from 13 detainees shortly after a soldier reported the incidents to military investigators in mid-January. The detainees said they were savagely beaten and repeatedly humiliated sexually by American soldiers working on the night shift at Tier 1A in Abu Ghraib during the holy month of Ramadan, according to copies of the statements obtained by The Washington Post.

The statements provide the most detailed picture yet of what took place on the cellblock. Some of the detainees described being abused as punishment or discipline after they were caught fighting or with a prohibited item. Some said they were pressed to denounce Islam or were force-fed pork and liquor. Many provided graphic details of how they were sexually humiliated and assaulted, threatened with rape, and forced to masturbate in front of female soldiers.

"They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees," said Hiadar Sabar Abed Miktub al-Aboodi, detainee No. 13077. "And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy. After that, they took us to our cells, took the mattresses out and dropped water on the floor and they made us sleep on our stomachs on the floor with the bags on our head and they took pictures of everything."

The prisoners also provided accounts of how some of the now-famous photographs were staged, including the pyramid of hooded, naked prisoners. Eight of the detainees identified by name one particular soldier at the center of the abuse investigation, Spec. Charles A. Graner Jr., a member of the 372nd Military Police Company from Cresaptown, Md. Five others described abuse at the hands of a solider who matches Graner's description.

"They said we will make you wish to die and it will not happen," said Ameen Saeed Al-Sheik, detainee No. 151362. "They stripped me naked. One of them told me he would rape me. He drew a picture of a woman to my back and makes me stand in shameful position holding my buttocks."

The Pentagon is investigating the allegations, a spokesman said last night.

"There are a number of lines of inquiry that are being taken with respect to allegations of abuse of detainees in U.S. custody," Bryan Whitman said. "There is still more to know and to be learned and new things to be discovered."

Threats of Death and Assault

The disclosures come from a new cache of documents, photographs and videos obtained by The Post that are part of evidence assembled by Army investigators putting together criminal cases against soldiers at Abu Ghraib. So far, seven MPs have been charged with brutalizing detainees at the prison, and one pleaded guilty Wednesday.

The sworn statements, taken in Baghdad between Jan. 16 and Jan. 21, span 65 pages. Each statement begins with a handwritten account in Arabic that is signed by the detainee, followed by a typewritten translation by U.S. military contractors. The shortest statement is a single paragraph; the longest exceeds two single-spaced typewritten pages.

Offline xrtoronto

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2004, 06:27:49 PM »
C&P PAGE 2 OF 2

While military investigators interviewed the detainees separately, many of them recalled the same event or pattern of events and procedures in Tier 1A -- a block reserved for prisoners who were thought to possess intelligence that could help thwart the insurgency in Iraq, find Saddam Hussein or locate weapons of mass destruction. Military intelligence officers took over the cellblock last October and were using MPs to help "set the conditions" for interrogations, according to an investigative report complied by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba. Several MPs have since said in statements and through their attorneys that they were roughing up detainees at the direction of U.S. military intelligence officers.

Most of the detainees said in the statements that they were stripped upon their arrival to Tier 1A, forced to wear women's underwear, and repeatedly humiliated in front of one another and American soldiers. They also described beatings and threats of death and sexual assault if they did not cooperate with U.S. interrogators.

Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, detainee No. 151108, told investigators that when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib last year, he was forced to strip, put on a hood and wear rose-colored panties with flowers on them. "Most of the days I was wearing nothing else," he said in his statement.

Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures.

Hilas told investigators that he asked Graner for the time one day because he wanted to pray. He said Graner cuffed him to the bars of a cell window and left him there for close to five hours, his feet dangling off the floor. Hilas also said he watched as Graner and others sodomized a detainee with a phosphoric light. "They tied him to the bed," Hilas said.

Graner's attorney, Guy L. Womack, did not return phone messages yesterday. In previous interviews, he has said that his client was following the lead of military intelligence officers.

Mustafa Jassim Mustafa, detainee No. 150542, told military investigators he also witnessed the phosphoric-light assault. He said it was around the time of Ramadan, the holiest period of the Muslim year, when he heard screams coming from a cell below. Mustafa said he looked down to see a group of soldiers holding the detainee down and sodomizing him with the light.

Graner was sodomizing him with the phosphoric light, Mustafa said. The detainee "was screaming for help. There was another tall white man who was with Graner -- he was helping him. There was also a white female soldier, short, she was taking pictures."

Another detainee told military investigators that American soldiers sodomized and beat him. The detainee, whose name is being withheld by The Post because he is an alleged victim of a sexual assault, said he was kept naked for five days when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib and was forced to kneel for four hours with a hood over his head. He said he was beaten so badly one day that the hood flew off his head. "The police was telling me to crawl in Arabic, so I crawled on my stomach and the police were spitting on me when I was crawling, and hitting me on my back, my head and my feet," he said in his sworn statement.

One day, the detainee said, American soldiers held him down and spread his legs as another soldier prepared to open his pants. "I started screaming," he said. A soldier stepped on his head, he said, and someone broke a phosphoric light and spilled the chemicals on him.

"I was glowing and they were laughing," he said.

The detainee said the soldiers eventually brought him to a room and sodomized him with a nightstick. "They were taking pictures of me during all these instances," he told the investigators.

Mohanded Juma Juma, detainee No. 152307, said he was stripped and kept naked for six days when he arrived at Abu Ghraib. One day, he said, American soldiers brought a father and his son into the cellblock. He said the soldiers put hoods over their heads and removed their clothes.

Then, they removed the hoods.

"When the son saw his father naked he was crying," Juma told the investigators. "He was crying because of seeing his father."

He also said Graner repeatedly threw the detainees' meals into the toilets and said, "Eat it."

Hussein Mohssein Mata Al-Zayiadi, detainee No. 19446, told investigators that he was one of the hooded prisoners shown in photographs masturbating before American soldiers. "They told my friend to masturbate and told me to masturbate also, while they were taking pictures," he said.

Al-Zayiadi also said he and other detainees were beaten and tossed into separate cells.

"They opened the water in the cell and told us to lay face down in the water and we stayed like that until the morning, in the water, naked, without clothes," he said in his statement.

He also said soldiers forced him and others to perform like animals.

"Did the guards force you to crawl on your hands and knees on the ground?" a military investigator asked.

"Yes, they forced us to do this thing," Al-Zayiadi said.

"What were the guards doing while you were crawling on your hands and knees?"

"They were sitting on our backs like riding animals," Al-Zayiadi said.

He said the guards took pictures of the incident.

Photographs Described

Al-Zayiadi also described what has become one of the iconic photographs in the prison abuse scandal.

"They brought my friends, Haidar, Ahmed, Nouri, Ahzem, Hashiem, Mustafa, and I, and they put us two on the bottom, two on top of them, and two on top of those and one on top," he said. "They took pictures of us and we were naked."

Another publicized photograph -- that of a hooded detainee hooked up to wires and standing on a box -- is also described in the statements.

"On the third day, after five o'clock, Mr. Graner came and took me to room Number 37, which is the shower room, and he started punishing me," said Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, detainee No. 18170. "Then he brought a box of food and he made me stand on it with no clothing, except a blanket. Then a tall black soldier came and put electrical wires on my fingers and toes and on my noodle, and I had a bag over my head."

Al-Sheik said he was arrested on Oct. 7, and brought to Abu Ghraib, where he was put in a tent for one night. The next day, he was transferred to the "hard site," the two-story building that held about 200 prisoners and contained Tiers 1A and 1B.

He said a bag was put over his head and he was made to strip. He said American soldiers started to taunt him.

"Do you pray to Allah?" one asked. "I said yes. They said, '[Expletive] you. And [expletive] him.' One of them said, 'You are not getting out of here health[y], you are getting out of here handicapped. And he said to me, 'Are you married?' I said, 'Yes.' They said, 'If your wife saw you like this, she will be disappointed.' One of them said, 'But if I saw her now she would not be disappointed now because I would rape her.' "

He said the soldiers told him that if he cooperated with interrogators they would release him in time for Ramadan. He said he did, but still was not released. He said one soldier continued to abuse him by striking his broken leg and ordered him to curse Islam. "Because they started to hit my broken leg, I cursed my religion," he said. "They ordered me to thank Jesus that I'm alive."

The detainee said the soldiers handcuffed him to a bed.

"Do you believe in anything?" he said the soldier asked. "I said to him, 'I believe in Allah.' So he said, "But I believe in torture and I will torture you.' "

© 2004 The Washington Post Company

Offline txmx

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2004, 06:37:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
C&P  PAGE 1 OF 2

New Details of Prison Abuse Emerge
Abu Ghraib Detainees' Statements Describe Sexual Humiliation And Savage Beatings

By Scott Higham and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 21, 2004; Page A01

Previously secret sworn statements by detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison
 


Well Yeah theres some credible witnesses LOL NOT!!:rofl

Offline capt. apathy

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Rumsfeld bans cameras in Irak-prisons.
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2004, 06:40:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by txmx
Oh BOO freekin HOO!
I am getting soo freekin tired of hearing had badly these murdering scumbags were treated in PRISON.

Was there treatment wrong ? Hell yes it was very stupid and unprofessional and the guilty are being punished .

But to keep going on and on because they were forced to play neeked twister for crying out loud.

Atleast they where not having electrodes hooked up to there nutt sacs !

People we aint talking about poor old victims of war here .
We are talking about the murdering stunninghunks who if given half a chance would shoot our guys in the back!

So if they were embarASSed alittle get freekin over it .


so after reading more detailed accounts, do you still stand by this post?

n/m, after reading your last post I have my answer

Offline xrtoronto

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« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2004, 06:44:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by txmx
Well Yeah theres some credible witnesses LOL NOT!!:rofl



txmx...if you re-read the article...there are pictures and written signed confessions by US troops!

Offline txmx

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« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2004, 06:45:47 PM »
The only thing missing is the alien autopsy photos LOL.

For crying out loud people key word here is that PRISONERS are making these claims.

They are smart they know that the press and all the blleeding hearts will run with this (kind like whats happend).
They also know that this would really mess up any plans Bush had further in Iraq.

Think about it in An American Prison ask any prisoner and he will tell ya Im INNOCENT I was framed  The guards are mean to me and the toilet paper is too harsh on my bottom.

When we have some sworn proof from more than just a few of any body but the accused LOL I might lend an ear to this nonesense.

Till then It in my mind will remain hear say and rumor NOT FACT.

Offline txmx

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« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2004, 06:48:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
txmx...if you re-read the article...there are pictures and written signed confessions by US troops!


Picture this.

PVT jones I can make life very easy If you just tell us what we want to hear.

Otherwise your butt is going away for a long time.
You think about that son.

Now If your 19--or 20 years old what would you do?

LOL I could dream up what ever I think they would want to hear hell I could write a paper that would get a pulitzer.