nVidia vs ATI / Screen freezing

[MaddogWx]

GeForce cards are having problems too...at least mine is.  Everything was great until Beta 34/35.  Before that Beta frame rates were a steady 75 in uncongested areas and 60's in small furballs. That was with highest range and quality selected.  Now I get at best 60's and down in 30's in furballs with lower quality and range selected.  Tried enditall2, and had the latest Nvidea driver (1 April 2004).  Now running an unapproved beta video driver to get up to the frame rates above.  No freezes but frame rate changes annoying and 30's a bit low in the furball.   I am sure this will be fixed before AHII goes live(?????).


Athlon 64 2 Ghz
1 gig pc3200 ram  
Geforce 5950 ultra video card (top of line 2 months ago)
windows XP home
DSL connection

[AWCHKRS]

One thing that effects my ingame Frame rates big time is my Monitor refresh rate settings , if I run the monitor at a setting of 80 the  frame rates are low and slow ,  So I set the monitor refresh rate to 100 and like magic , the frame rates in AH jumps up too !

 Hope thios helps .
 CHECKERS

[Hajo]

Have an ATI 9800 Pro.

No screen freezes.  ATI cards are better because they can run FSAA with little or no penalty in Frame Rate.

I have used Nvidia cards exclusively until 4 months ago.  GeForce4 Ti4600 was last card.  If I attempted to use FSAA with the Geforce card, the frame rates would drop significantly.
Using 6X FSAA and anistropic filtering I suffer no frame rate loss whatsoever.  This makes for smoother and much crisper and cleaner graphics.  No "jaggies"  hills and mountains look like mountains and not pyramids.

I suggest that ATI card owners look at your settings.  Also one is not going to get optimum frame rates unless the refresh rate of the monitor is tweeked upwards also.  Remember....frame rates can be limited by the refresh rate of the monitor.  If you have the capability and a monitor that can handle it, raise your refresh rate!  Refresh rates also effect NVidia cards the same way.

NVidia cards at least in my experience are fine cards.  But because you take a FR hit by just using FSAA, you can't take full advantage of the graphic details.  Even using 2XFSAA with an Nvidia card (my last experience) would cut the FR in half.

So....if your an ATI user I suggest a couple of things.

1.) Use the latest Omega drivers.  They are ATI drivers tweeked to perform better for gamers.  Follow the instructions on installation carefully.
2.) Check your settings!  You can boost FR by just lowering the resolution.  Rule of thumb I find useful.  19in' monitor 1280X1024.
17" monitor, think its 1024X780  15" monitor, another step down in resolution.
3.) Always try to have sound card and AGP Graphics cards on separate addresses.  Your motherboard schematic will show you which slots share addresses.
4.) Now...I forgot.  If I remember correctly the latest Omega drivers are for WinXP/2K.  If you're using 98,98SE, or 95 there are drivers for them....just not the latest.

Also.....some CPUs will just perform better.  Naturally faster is better....some have more pipelines etc.  But you should be able to play AH2 with a 1.2 or higher CPU imho.

Use Dx diagnostics also.  See if Dx sees the amount of memory that your card has.  I've had past experiences when using a 128 meg card showed in Dx that it was about 4 to 5 meg short.  If that's the case...it is best to...

1.) uninstall driver and reinstall
2.) upgrade your driver.  They say that new drivers can be installed now without uninstalling the old ones.  Guess what?
I'm old fashioned and I always uninstall the old drivers before installing the new ones.  Call me crazy...but I like to be sure my system sees only one driver.  And I never have problems with my drivers.  I feel better when my PC isn't bouncing off 6 different lines in the registry trying to find the latest driver.

There are many people in AH that know a lot more about graphics and drivers then I.  I find what I stated above works for me.
Gas mileage may vary.

[Siaf__csf]

Operating System: Windows XP Pro (5.1-,Build 2600)
CPU: AMD Athlon, MMX, 3D Now, ~ 1.0 GHz
SYS Mem: PC 2100, 256 Meg, DDR
Video: ST Labs ATI Radeon 9000LE, 128 Bit 128 DDR mem, 250MHz Engine Clock
Direct version, 9.0b 4.09.0000.0902
 

I can see several big problems with that system.

First of all 256Megs of ram won't be enough for any modern game if you run WinXP. 1Gb is required for games such as lomac, Il2 and the likes.

Secondly a 1Ghz cpu won't cut the mustard. It has been outdated in games for 1+ years.

Third: Ati Radeon9000 can't handle 3D intensive games. The fact that yours is the LE version makes it even worse (LE is the slowest form of ATI cards.) If you 'upgraded' to a 9000LE I can tell you, you made a BIG mistake there. Waste of money.

What's left? Oh, Directx9b is up to the task. No need for a change there.

A quick low-cost solution for you would be to move back to Windows98SE which would help greatly on your lack of resources. The 98 is still the fastest gaming platform around and it's your best shot if money is THE object. If you can spare a few bucks you need to upgrade all 3 of your main components, most importantly the radeon9000LE has to go.

I personally run A64 3000+ with radeon9500pro and I get around 60fps in tower with little over middle slider positions. It's not good by any means but I noticed an increase in fps from 20+ to 60+ when I upgraded my cpu from 1900+ to 3000+. The bottleneck now clearly is the 9500pro.

[TBolt A-10]

Originally posted by Hajo
1.) Use the latest Omega drivers.  They are ATI drivers tweeked to perform better for gamers.  Follow the instructions on installation carefully.

Great post, Hajo.

Where can I find these Omega drivers?  Please point me to the right website, and I'll find the drivers for my 9700.

Thank you!

[ edit ]

found this site: http://www.omegacorner.com   correct?

[guttboy]

My current sys specs are in the sig block...FYI perhaps we all might want to put that there so folks can see what everyone is running in beta...just a suggestion...

OK...I have been testing the AH2 B35 now since it rolled out..been testing the other betas as well.

My findings for MY system....I have put all new drivers, updated everything imaginable and still coming out with the same results.

For what its worth it makes NO difference on my machine whether I run high AA/AF (eyecandy as I call it) or low.  Nor does it matter whether I run different screen resolutions...the results are the same.

What it appears to me, and I am running an ATI Radeon 9800XT with 256 on it, is that my MOBO/CPU is the limiting factor.

There are guys out there in my squadron and such running the same things and getting much better FR than I am.  NO CLUE WHY...only assumption is the MOBO/CPU combination is causing a bottleneck.

The visuals are outstanding!  However my FR's drop into the low 20's when in jabo over a base or when in a huge furball.  FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST.

As far as freezes go...yes they are there...my squad has officially switched to AH2 to continue tweaking and testing.  My observations only but it seems as though we are all getting the "micro Freezes" whether or not you are using Nvidia or ATI.  I will admit that the fellas that are running the Nvidia cards seem to be getting better FR's but everyone's system is different.

I would LOVE to know if it is possible to run AH2 with max Quality/DETAIL and still maintain FR's over high 30's and stable (my requirements).  I would also love to know with all the Eyecandy on what system would run this and what system the fellas at HTC are using to test this?  Skuzzy Pyro?

Anyhow...I posted another post on recommendations for a new AH2 rig...using my ATI 9800 on it.

Regards:aok

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I can see several big problems with that system.

First of all 256Megs of ram won't be enough for any modern game if you run WinXP. 1Gb is required for games such as lomac, Il2 and the likes.

Secondly a 1Ghz cpu won't cut the mustard. It has been outdated in games for 1+ years.

Third: Ati Radeon9000 can't handle 3D intensive games. The fact that yours is the LE version makes it even worse (LE is the slowest form of ATI cards.) If you 'upgraded' to a 9000LE I can tell you, you made a BIG mistake there. Waste of money.

What's left? Oh, Directx9b is up to the task. No need for a change there.

A quick low-cost solution for you would be to move back to Windows98SE which would help greatly on your lack of resources. The 98 is still the fastest gaming platform around and it's your best shot if money is THE object. If you can spare a few bucks you need to upgrade all 3 of your main components, most importantly the radeon9000LE has to go.

I personally run A64 3000+ with radeon9500pro and I get around 60fps in tower with little over middle slider positions. It's not good by any means but I noticed an increase in fps from 20+ to 60+ when I upgraded my cpu from 1900+ to 3000+. The bottleneck now clearly is the 9500pro.

Please note: from the News, Announcements, & Information of these message boards.

Originally posted by Pyro
AH2 nearing release
The AH2 beta will soon be coming to an end. We are working on the final remaining bugs and issues with AH2 and as soon as that is done, it will be released. There are still numerous aesthetic enhancements that aren’t yet completed, but we don’t feel that they warrant holding up the release any longer. We’ll continue to work on those after the initial release and return to a tighter update frequency that we used in the early days of AH1 but now with AH2 being the platform for steady enhancement. We also look forward to working on Tour of Duty.

We encourage everybody to try out the beta at this time. It is better to find out now if you have any hardware issues with AH2 rather than after it is released.

You must have DirectX 9 installed to run AH2. As a result, only video cards that are DirectX 9 compatible will run AH2. You may also have to update your video drivers if you have not done that in a long time.

Basic system requirements for AH2 are as follows: 850 MHz processor, 256 MB memory, GeForce 2 or equivalent video card. You may be able to run it to your satisfaction with a lesser system, but a lesser system will probably not have a compatible video card unless that was previously upgraded.

Once AH2 goes live, it will replace the current version 1.11 as the mandatory version.

Thanks to everybody who has participated in the open beta. Your feedback and bug reports have been a tremendous help to us.

__________________
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

According to some ppl frame rates don’t seem to be a big problem for me, 32 to 35 fps tower. 31 to 45 fps in flight. Didn’t I read somewhere that we can only see so many frames with the human eye?  Seeing is one thing...residual effect is something altogether different im thinking  Although im inclined to agree with you.
The creators of the game have stated the starting point. Still keeping my fingers crossed

[Hajo]

T.Bolt

Get them at driverheaven.net/downloads/index4.htm

Site is called Driver Heaven.

[Flit]

30-35 fps is suppose to be the limit
and my ATI9600xt gets 70-80 fps in ah2, about the same as ah1
try adjusting the sliders in the setup toward preformence if your struggling. Ya just got to find a "happy medium"

[Hajo]

Frame rates revisited.

There are in game adjustments of video performance for AH2 in setup that you can take advantage of.  Well thought out by HTC...Kudos.

CPUs....It has been my experience....and not trying to turn this into a CPU contest...that Athlons perform better for gaming.  This is just not my experience, but also PC Gaming Magazine who benchmarks the CPU for their readers in actual gameplay.
Bang for the buck...and performance goes to Athlon.  Again, just not my opinion only.

My system specs....and FR is in the 80s' consistently without stutters or Freezes.

AthlonXP2400  ~2ghz
1024 pc2700DDR
ATI 9800Pro 128DDR
Win2K
SB Live 5.1
Via chipset (make sure your onboard chipset drivers are up to date)
ASUS A7V333 mobo 266 FSB (memory running at 333)

Again.....your motherboard down chipset (VIA's etc.) have drivers also.....check to see if the ones you have are current also. Northbridge and southbridge chipsets are the Band Director.
In some instances, and I say some....an upgrade in this driver could help you significantly.  Especially if you're using the Vias.
I know for a fact...when I installed the 9800 Pro, in the instructions were a list provided by ATI of chipsets that had to have the latest drivers or the 9800Pro wouldn't operate correctly or at all.

[Siaf__csf]

Mugzee do you always aim to play games according to the minimum posted specs at the back cover? rofl!

The minimum specs will provide you with a slideshow - granted and for sure.

If you want something actually playable, you have to double or triple the minimum specs. I'm sorry but that's life.

30 fps will not be enough for a fast paced game. Even if you can maintain the said fps in steady flight, you'll get a heavy penalty around _any_ action in the game. The penalty will cost you dear lives over and over again as the guys sporting 100+ fps will run circles around you at smoking fields etc. places where your 30 fps system will be doing 5fps and begging on its knees to be put out of its misery.

Once you auger for the first time for bad fps or notice you're dead between the turn of the stick and the next screen update, you'll know what I'm talking about.

The fps in games is never constant. Quite the contrary it fluctuates constantly which leads to the conclusion that one must have double or triple 'buffer' in fps in order to maintain a playable fps at all times.

Your fps will be down in all the moments where you need fluent movement the most.

[guttboy]

Hajo,

What resolution and settings are you running for the sliders?  How is your AA and AF set on the card?

Regards:)

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Mugzee do you always aim to play games according to the minimum posted specs at the back cover? rofl!

The minimum specs will provide you with a slideshow - granted and for sure.

If you want something actually playable, you have to double or triple the minimum specs. I'm sorry but that's life.

30 fps will not be enough for a fast paced game. Even if you can maintain the said fps in steady flight, you'll get a heavy penalty around _any_ action in the game. The penalty will cost you dear lives over and over again as the guys sporting 100+ fps will run circles around you at smoking fields etc. places where your 30 fps system will be doing 5fps and begging on its knees to be put out of its misery.

Once you auger for the first time for bad fps or notice you're dead between the turn of the stick and the next screen update, you'll know what I'm talking about.

The fps in games is never constant. Quite the contrary it fluctuates constantly which leads to the conclusion that one must have double or triple 'buffer' in fps in order to maintain a playable fps at all times.

Your fps will be down in all the moments where you need fluent movement the most.

To answer you question. No i don't. As i understand it. im a litle higher than the Min req.
As for you opinion... Quote "First of all 256Megs of ram won't be enough for any modern game if you run WinXP. 1Gb is required for games such as lomac, Il2 and the likes. "
I thought AH1 was somewhat modern.


Quote"Secondly a 1Ghz cpu won't cut the mustard. It has been outdated in games for 1+ years."

I have been playing AH1 on this rig from the begining. Runs excellent.
As for you ID...could you please disclose your MA game ID? Is you game ID different than the BBS ID? I like to know who im conversing with.
As for the rest of it.... Again i tend to agree to the Double or Tripple thingy Thanks for your input, it is appreciated

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Flit
30-35 fps is suppose to be the limit
and my ATI9600xt gets 70-80 fps in ah2, about the same as ah1
try adjusting the sliders in the setup toward preformence if your struggling. Ya just got to find a "happy medium"

Thanks for the input Flit. But unfortunently I have already set everything towards Performance as possible. I do mean Everything.

[Siaf__csf]

I'm not actively playing AH at the moment, just read the BB and try to give technical advice when I can.

Because of the flamewars I've been through here I will keep my game identity secret as I don't need to drag the weight over to that world should I choose to reactivate my account (which I well may do.) It's best for everyones gameplay.

I thought AH1 was somewhat modern.

AH1 hasn't been graphically modern in most of its existence. Same applies to AH2. The online games are dumbed down in several aspects in order to keep downloads small and reversely help users with lower end machines to be able to play AH and pay subscriptions to HTC. The very same thing applies for the necessary CPU power needed to run the game.

Only difference is that now AH2 seems to hog way more resources at its present stage than what the graphical quality would indicate. This was not the case with AH1 when it entered out of beta so either HT still has plenty of code optimising to do or AH2 is IMO a failure compared to AH1. At the time AH1 delivered the best graphical quality of MMOGs and did it with relatively small requirements in hardware.