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Author Topic: Next AH Scenario - Battle of Britain 2004  (Read 10092 times)

Offline ramzey

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Next AH Scenario - Battle of Britain 2004
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2004, 09:54:31 PM »
in 1940 ju88 was not main german bomber. And was so rare as spit mk2. Thats main problem.
I still remember  BOB from WB where i saw icon of he111
Funny is from all events we can play, only midway have allmost full coverage of planes and most accurate.
Skins cannot fill som holes in game. Thats annoying, after so many years we play this scenario we still cant get coirrect planeset for most importand, most famus most playable scenario.
Mayby is better just buy ace pack for fb......... for sure cheaper

Falcon still not get it


regards
ramzey
(flametrower)
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Offline Seeker

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Next AH Scenario - Battle of Britain 2004
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2004, 10:03:58 PM »
Please put me down for a Spit ride.
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Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2004, 12:30:02 AM »
also scenario planners might wanna keep in mind by the time the event is ready to start HT and pyro *might* have an early version of He111 or Do 17 out.
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Offline artik

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Next AH Scenario - Battle of Britain 2004
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2004, 01:13:59 AM »
what do you think to do it just without Ju-88,
Me110 and Stukas are good enough as bumbers.....

Ju88 will be unstopable planes.....
Flying in formation and having same amout of rear guns like Spit. It is just suicide to attack formation of Ju88, also spit will not be able to make HO attacks or others because of luck of the speed. Only dead 6 attacks will be possible because of Ju88 speed. Where Ju88 defence guns will make no chances to attack.

That is kind of situation where it is better to use only Me110 and Stukas - at least they were operational and they not clearly outperform RAF planes.

I know this issue were discussed a lot... But Ju88 not best subsit for Do-17/He-111
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Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline 68DevilM

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Next AH Scenario - Battle of Britain 2004
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2004, 03:36:54 AM »
yeah me want a spit too
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Offline artik

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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2004, 06:06:37 AM »
Some questions:
  • What are going to be life rules? Any chance for rescue mission over La Manche - that would be great :)

(I know but I really enjoyed that in scenario - only way that forced me to stay for 3 hours)
  • Will RAF have some strike squadrons to prevent German invention to Britan? If they will which planes?
  • The bomber squadrons will fly bombers all the frames? Or there will be some dual roles?


I know you are working on it but.....

regards
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Offline LLv34_Snefens

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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2004, 06:31:40 AM »
Quote
Will RAF have some strike squadrons to prevent German invention to Britan? If they will which planes?


Yes, Typhoons substituting for Blenheims :)
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Offline jordi

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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2004, 07:46:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by artik
Some questions:
  • What are going to be life rules? Any chance for rescue mission over La Manche - that would be great :)
Jordi - Yes We are working on Resuce for RAF Pilots.

(I know but I really enjoyed that in scenario - only way that forced me to stay for 3 hours)
  • Will RAF have some strike squadrons to prevent German invention to Britan? If they will which planes?
Jordi - Maybe - but not till frame #4 if the Axis tries to Invade.


  • The bomber squadrons will fly bombers all the frames? Or there will be some dual roles?
Jordi - We are looking some Bomber / Bomber Rides and some Fighter / Bomber Rides.


[/list]

I know you are working on it but.....

regards
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Offline Batz

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Next AH Scenario - Battle of Britain 2004
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2004, 07:52:58 AM »
:) I remeber that Snefens, I flew G2s with the Fins (Wotan at the time). The good thing is they ran out of gas....

BoB without Bombers artik?

The Ju87 wasnt a major player in BoB except early on...
Even the 110c4 the lw has for this event is has a db601n eng. It was rare during bob as well.

So the lw with E4 (no E3s) Ju88a4 (no ealier LW bomber) and JU87d3 (no earlier LW dive bomber).

The Ju88A4 is not some uber bird, I shot down plenty in the CT in a Hurri 1 during BoB set ups....

Ramzey

You asked for BoB every year :)

If you want it, then its gotta be run with the planes availble.

Most RAF in the 1st BoB ( I rode 3 frames as bomber Gunner) tried to ho ju88s with 303s then had to turn 180 and flew right up their six, only to be shot down as they flew into a hail of 7mm....

Most allied guys dont attck bombers much. Maybe they will practice this time :)

Try b17s at 27 k while in an 190a8. In Bob our bombers were at 15 -17k...

Little tip about the AH DM, Velocity at impact determins the amount of damage. So when you flew dead 6 into bombers you are flying into the Ju88s bullets, So bullet velocity at impact + the speed of your  AC = more damage then say a Hurri 1 firing at a ju88 from the rear (bullet velocity - the speed of the ju88 = less damage). So theres no uber ju88, just poor tactics :)

In fact our Ju88s slowed down when under attack to increase the closure rate of dead 6 attackers...

However, I had lotsa fun, in frame 4 I shot down 2 hurris otd over the channel while on Vox giving orders and typing...
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Offline artik

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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2004, 09:30:56 AM »
Quote
Yes We are working on Resuce for RAF Pilots.


WOW..... that's really great :aok To good to be true....
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Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Flossy

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« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2004, 09:54:29 AM »
There'd better be [level ;)] bombers in BoB, or I won't be flying in it.  :p
« Last Edit: May 29, 2004, 11:42:43 AM by Flossy »
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Offline jordi

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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2004, 11:39:15 AM »
Ju87's and Ju88's  . ..

Beyond that - ask HTC !  :)
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Offline Easyscor

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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2004, 11:55:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by artik
what do you think to do it just without Ju-88,

Easy - Now that just goes TOO far! ;)

Ju88 will be unstopable planes.....
Flying in formation and having same amout of rear guns like Spit. It is just suicide to attack formation of Ju88, also spit will not be able to make HO attacks or others because of luck of the speed. Only dead 6 attacks will be possible because of Ju88 speed. Where Ju88 defence guns will make no chances to attack.

Easy - Off subject a bit but I've often wondered why the Ju88 didn't have better guns.  Could it be because it was fast enough when introduced that this was the situation then too?

That is kind of situation where it is better to use only Me110 and Stukas - at least they were operational and they not clearly outperform RAF planes.

Easy - What Flossy said. :p
« Last Edit: May 29, 2004, 12:19:26 PM by Easyscor »
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Offline Easyscor

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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2004, 12:16:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz
Little tip about the AH DM, Velocity at impact determins the amount of damage. So when you flew dead 6 into bombers you are flying into the Ju88s bullets, So bullet velocity at impact + the speed of your  AC = more damage then say a Hurri 1 firing at a ju88 from the rear (bullet velocity - the speed of the ju88 = less damage). So theres no uber ju88, just poor tactics :)
.

You're right but actually the closure rate between the fighter and the Ju88 is the same for both.

The drag effect on the bullets is what makes the difference as it slows the bullets velocity.  I've got the formula around here some where but generally, it's the difference in airspeed of the bullets that matter as both bullets are fighting the force of drag which uses the airspeed Velocity squared in the formula and with an aircraft airspeed of say 250 mph, the Ju88's bullets have 367 ft/sec less airspeed in the drag formula and the fighter has 367 ft/sec more airspeed in the bullet drag formula, and then you square each.  The result is the bullets fired from the Ju88 carry more of their original energy then those fired by the fighter on it's dead six.
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Offline ramzey

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« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2004, 01:33:52 AM »
@Artik
as im not familiar with  middle east post war battles, looks like you are not familiar  with BoB ;)
BoB without level bombers is not BoB ;-)



@ Wotan , dude you hurt me much!!!
Ju88 is not unstopable but is very hard bird to destroy by browning bean guns.
Its not true RAF not try head on attacks on bombers, at last i lead 2 of them. But you have only one chance for that and its about 5-7 sec with 1-3 sec burst  to fire and make adjustment. After that we need to reverse flight and attack again. Due high speed of ju88 and much lower speed of interceptors then during initial attack, many hurricanes was victim of lazer guns from ju88.


For me major bug and over modeling in AH, special earlu years bombers is missing of clip guns.
If you look at BOB movie, and im sure you saw many document movies, you can see clip loaded german defense guns. I was talking about that with expert just after previous scenario.
He said guns was not over heat during battle. Major issue was time of clip change 10-20 s , plus sometimes clip was not fitted correct ( due battle stress) and need adjustments and that takes more time. RIght now you can fire at once long 35 sec burst from ju88 with very high fire ratio. Thats give gunner possibility of amazing accuracy.
None of bombers during this battle have unlimited acces to ammunition he carry for gunners withaut need of changing clip.

We wrote everything about  overmodeling ju88 for this event 2 years ago. Sad HTC not make progress in this  during this time. And looking at AH2 this was not corrected too. Why when you firing from cannon you need to wait for reload , but from clipped gun not. heh


ramzey
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