Return of "Floppy Fish"

[bozon]

the flopy-fish manuver is the trade mark of 190s in AHI.

In AHII I think it works better due to the more difficult gunnery. Sometimes this move is not intendend since the player, not accustomed to the new FM, gets into a snap roll and trying to recover.

the floppy-fish is useless if the closure rate is slow. yes, pilots have to match, or at least be close to their target's speed to be effective, that's how it's supposed to be done. With the new icon system it's a bit tricky.

I am glad that somone is talking about it and maybe HT can look into why a 47 that weighs 2 tons can stall and recover and then have speed and E left to fly up.

The jug is an extremely stable plane, just because it's so fat. it's also very responsive even at slow speeds and has a gentle stall. Maybe the ONLY real advantage of the jug in a knife fight is it's ability to convert all it's speed to a one sharp turn/pull. but if that doesn't work, it's just left floating there big fat slow and helpless.

Bozon

[Virage]

AH2 is much smoother when flying close to another ac in formation or in tight rolling scissors.

'floppy fish' was when someone would abuse lag to ruin a shot.

Now I c 'Jinking'.  Which is in Shaw's book btw.

[OntosMk1]

Best thing about the "floppy fish" is to watch them twist and tumble to the earth after not being able to recover their little "Snap Roll". Has anyone seen this "stunt" pulled on the deck? Its one of those, "Your mine now.....what in the......I overshot!!"  CRASH *proxy kill awarded*

[g00b]

The "fish" was a perfectly valid evasive manuever in WWII. Of course they called it "juking". There are many stories from WWII pilots who survived to tell the tale by employing this tactic.

I think it's more obvious in AHII becuase the planes seem to be a little "looser" i.e. have some inertia, you can point the nose a good bit off of your actual vector. A good realistic feeling I might add. Using elevator or rudder you can probably point your nose 20ish degrees off your actual flight vector and by oscillating you get maybe 40 degrees (20 both ways) of "flop" while your plane maintains a relatively constant path.

Of course lag and path prediction excaberate the problem, but I don't think much improvement can be made over HTC's current solution.

[TDeacon]

I probably was in some of those FWs.  It is a combination of trying to practice WildThing's reversal technique with the huge roll rate of the FW.  When the reversal technique was executed improperly (snap roll instead of barrel roll), you probably saw the phenomenon described by some of the posts above.  Of course, once controls are damaged, then the uncontrolled rolling is more likely as well.  

It works better in a maneuverable plane like the spit, but I am trying to get away from spits.  At least the FW pilot can always ensure his roll is ahead of the opponent's.  It think it's good for the game when each type of plane has certain maneuvers it can use to be effective in a fite.  

Remember, in general, overshooting an opponent is bad, both in the game and in real life.

[TDeacon]

On the p47 energy issue alluded to above, please leave the poor p47 alone.  About the only thing it can do is retain energy via  inertia, presumably due to its great mass.  

Wish the p47 could roll better, as is implied in the book "Thunderbolt".  Doesn't seem to roll too well in AH.  

(A bit tangential to the topic, I admit).

[GODO]

Being or not a valid maneouvre, what I see is the nose of the enemy plane pointing right and then left and so on, without intermediate positions. The movement is too fast and the visual effect is impossible instantaneous changes of heading.

[TDeacon]

Godo, can you film this?

[kamori]

When in trouble i use a shoulder roll. Im not sure if this is what your seeing but my inputs are deliberate controll moves. No fast stick moves here. Works very well.

Kalamori

[KCDitto]

No!!!!
I use the snap roll and I agree --- it is effective -- the FW will roll best to the left and will corkscrew making the shot hard  but not impossible..


What I have seen is a plane STOP flop around like a dying fish and fall a few hundred feet and as you pull up to avoid catching whatever it is has affected this enemy plane  the bogey regains his speed and puts a load of lead in your tail section.

NOt sure if we all are talking on the same subject????

kcDitto

[GODO]

Originally posted by TDeacon
Godo, can you film this?

AFAIK, AH2 has no film viewer.

[TDeacon]

KCDitto, how do you know it "stopped"?  Remember we don't have a fixed reference point, but a moving one (our plane).  What you may have seen was a large, sudden, change in relative speed.  Many people will try to force an overshoot by various types of sudden violent rolling, combined with chopping throttle or cutting engine.  If this is done to extreme, you might see a "stop" with a drop in alt.  If an overshoot then develops the target would restart engine and go to WEP.

Godo, I will film a FW doing what I am talking about (in AH1), and if it looks similar to your description, will post the link.  I am not saying this is good flying, btw, just my attempt to learn how to force an overshoot; I have a ways to go...

Is this it?  https://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/fw_flop_1.ahf