Return of "Floppy Fish"

[Zanth]

As players are getting more accustomed to the flight model, they are learning how to use it.  

Example:

Dive on the long 6 of a spit, you notice to yourself how odd he hasn't turned to avoid yet.  You know it's one of two things, either he is AFK or you are about to see something you never read about in Shaws.   Sure enough just as he gets in gun range the spit goes into violent rapid and random gyrations.  In the space of time it takes to say "floppy fish, floppy fish" you have passed the spit and he has his nose back pointed on you like nothing happened.  

Seeing this more and more, anyone else?

[Edbert]

It is not just Spits Zanth but yes. About 50% of the time I made high speed attacks last night I saw just that. You have to wait SO long for a good firing distance that it only takes a second for them to avoid the shot and hose you down as you overshoot. This is particularly true with very high closure rates and dead-6 attacks. I had better luck with low6 or high6 attacks though. At least when he "flopped" and forced me to miss I was not in his firing cone. The amazing part to me is how little E they seem to have burned with the flop. I saw this technique with many enemies even a P47.

BTW...ManeTMP, that was some NICE Jug flying last night !

[gofaster]

I've seen it more in AH2 than I did in AH1, but most of the time I think its the guy in a high-speed stall from over-working his controls.

Best way to avoid this is to avoid packing so much smack that you can't control your maneuvers.  I chop throttle, kick full rudder, go nose-high and/or into a lag pursuit.  The longer he flops, the less alt and energy he'll have when he comes out of it.  And when he does, I'm above him storing my energy.

[Edbert]

The ones i saw were not really a stall, and i think that is what Zanth means too. They may be a little micro-stall but it is less than a second and they are back into a controlled envelope and firing at you. You are right of course about how to avoid the overshoot but out of respect for the capabilities of the Spit9 I seldom chop throttle and try to stick with him. the new gunnery model is making me hold fire until well within 400 on a moderate closure setup, if I am closing fast I'll fire when the icon turns to 400. The instant it goes from 600 to 400 does that mean I am 500?

One other thing which makes this harder for the attacker is the new icon range deal we have. Unless it is a long attack you may have trouble judgiing the closure rates now. I was closing fast on a Mustang last night, preparing to fire at about 400. All of a sudden I had a windscreen full of Pony! I killed him but grossly misjudged how slow he was or how fast I was and almost rammed him.

[KCDitto]

I have seen this FLOPPY FISH thing a lot and mostly with the fish flying a P-47

I thought it was some kind of HACK.


I fly the FW-190D-9 most of the time and when I zoom in on a P-47 he pulls this crap and I zoom up in a right spiral climb and after this move the 47 is still able to nose up and kill me.

I just shrug it off as a game GLITCH that the 47 drivers learned and go and get another plane. It always made me mad though as I felt it was not a realistic flight maneuver but a game maneuver.  

-I am glad that somone is talking about it and maybe HT can look into why a 47 that weighs 2 tons can stall and recover and then have speed and E left to fly up.

kcDITTO

[SunKing]

I've noticed it with every plane type in AH2. For awhile I attributed it to lag in the beta arena, now I think it's the new flight model too.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Zanth
As players are getting more accustomed to the flight model, they are learning how to use it.  

Example:

Dive on the long 6 of a spit, you notice to yourself how odd he hasn't turned to avoid yet.  You know it's one of two things, either he is AFK or you are about to see something you never read about in Shaws.   Sure enough just as he gets in gun range the spit goes into violent rapid and random gyrations.  In the space of time it takes to say "floppy fish, floppy fish" you have passed the spit and he has his nose back pointed on you like nothing happened.  

Seeing this more and more, anyone else?

i see that all the time in AHI... maybe its my UK ping vs US vs JAP ping? who knows......

[Echo]

I have noticed that sometimes i can make my plane (only done it in LA5fn) spin about its roll axis insanely fast.  you know how planes spin crazily after losing a wing, its almost like that, but i have no trouble at all recovering. just center the stick and unload any G's and all is well. seems to happen when i apply full left roll, full left rudder, and apply positive G's with the elevators. anyone able to duplicate this?  I don't think a real aircraft would behave this way......but what do i know.  Will try again when i get home from work and see if i can make it happen again.  

btw its seriously like 3 or 4 times the normal roll rate of the La5. and its not the spin or stall that comes from yanking too hard on the stick.

[Adogg]

...In an La7.

I can force a high-speed stall/intial stages of a spin in order to evade someone saddling up on my six. The recovery takes between 10 and 15 secons but I found it forced an overshoot very nicely. It is weird. I'll see if I can get some film of it this weekend.

[hitech]

Echo, thats called a snap roll.


HiTech

[Echo]

ah so i'm not "gaming the game" when i use it when someone's on my six. in that case i'll have at it......as it seems to work well as a defensive manuever.

[F4UDOA]

Hitech,

I would agree with Zanth. I have been on AH2 exclusively for a while and I have seen many players go floppy fish in some very uncordinated maneuvers that have no ACM value at all.

It is a very subjective thing but I have noticed it quite a bit more than usual lately.

[Octavius]

I dont even like to waste ammo when I see someone do that... be it on purpose or by accident.  A 190 flopped 'so bad' that it seemed to bounce around my gunsight - had I even opened fire, it probably nothign would have connected.  It appeared the G forces on your opponent should be incredibly large the way it violently flopped about.  Its almost impossible to follow such a maneuver at the same speed as your opponent unless you also cause a weird stall (with no ACM value as F4U pointed out)

[fluffy]

I've accidentally pulled snap rolls when startled by the appearance of a deadly threat on my 6.  Very embarrassing - but Robert Stanford Tuck used to execute these things on purpose in Spitfires when stunting, so the behaviour is realistic.  I suspect that most of the ones seen in the AH2 beta are accidental.  

The 'wobbling' of wings is VERY cool in an energy fight.  I had a good one the other day - low down, me in a p47 versus a Ta152 - as we got slower and closer together  I could SEE he was on the edge of stalling as his long wings would wobble after a manouver, and sure enough he eventually fell into the ground. I was out of ammo and ran out  of gas when I was above him, so I bluffed with a dive right at him and he stalled out evading. So I was able to use the visual cues which AH2 now gives you, to make a tactical decision during a dogfight. I don't recall seeing anything quite like that anywhere but AH2. I was so dazzled by the experience that I died trying to bellyland my p47, so it was a pyrrhic victory. This sim just gets better and better.

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Echo
ah so i'm not "gaming the game" when i use it when someone's on my six. in that case i'll have at it......as it seems to work well as a defensive manuever.

Absolutely not! Its an excellent manuver and doesnt work very well in AH1.  It looks as if it will be a more effective defensive manuver in AH2.
wtg
MugZ