Author Topic: Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.  (Read 1199 times)

Offline Pongo

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2004, 05:48:34 PM »
Another difference is that people who had lost no one in  a war would never have dreamed of critisising in print how the people behave who lost loved ones in that war. I doubt the writer sees that.
Its like the writer thinks that the people who lost those three didnt hate the war for it..or get mad at thier president for it. He doesnt know any such thing of course. By assuming they behaved in a way that makes his comparison valuable for his political point maybe he is doing them a great disservice. I doubt the author sees that though.

Offline Lizking

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2004, 05:49:26 PM »
They began "revising" in about 1854, then MT.

Offline Leslie

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2004, 05:52:23 PM »
You're right MT.  "Uncle Tom's Cabin" is what started the war.


Les

Offline midnight Target

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2004, 05:59:30 PM »
Pre-emptive revision!
:)

Actually... you should read the declaration of secession by Alabaman E. S. Dargan.


I feel impelled, Mr. President, to vote for this Ordinance by an overruling necessity. Years ago I was convinced that the Southern States would be compelled either to separate from the North, by dissolving the Federal Government, or they would be compelled to abolish the institution of African Slavery.

This, in my judgment, was the only alternative; and I foresaw that the South would be compelled, at some day, to make her selection. The day is now come, and Alabama must make her selection, either to secede from the Union, and assume the position of a sovereign, independent State, or she must submit to a system of policy on the part of the Federal Government that, in a short time, will compel her to abolish African Slavery.

(my favorite part... if they are freed.. then what?)

 Mr. President, if pecuniary loss alone were involved in the abolition of slavery, I should hesitate long before I would give the vote I now intend to give. If the destruction of slavery entailed on us poverty alone, I could bear it, for I have seen poverty and felt its sting. But poverty, Mr. President, would be one of the least of the evils that would befall us from the abolition of African slavery. There are now in the slaveholding States over four millions of slaves; dissolve the relation of master and slave, and what, I ask, would become of that race? To remove them from amongst us is impossible. History gives us no account of the exodus of such a number of persons. We neither have a place to which to remove them, nor the means of such removal. They therefore must remain with us; and if the relation of master and slave be dissolved, and our slaves turned loose amongst us without restraint, they would either be destroyed by our own hands-- the hands to which they look, and look with confidence, for protection-- or we ourselves would become demoralized and degraded. The former result would take place, and we ourselves would become the executioners of our own slaves. To this extent would the policy of our Northern enemies drive us; and thus would we not only be reduced to poverty, but what is still worse, we should be driven to crime, to the commission of sin; and we must, therefore, this day elect between the Government formed by our fathers (the whole spirit of which has been perverted), and POVERTY AND CRIME! This being the alternative, I cannot hesitate for a moment what my duty is. I must separate from the Government of my fathers, the one under which I have lived, and under which I wished to die. But I must do my duty to my country and my fellow beings; and humanity, in my judgment, demands that Alabama should separate herself from the Government of the United States.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2004, 06:01:23 PM »
What South Carolina stated as a cause of secession and therefor the civil war.

Quote
PP 25 of "DECLARATION OF THE IMMEDIATE CAUSES WHICH INDUCE AND JUSTIFY THE SECESSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA FROM THE FEDERAL UNION."
A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline midnight Target

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2004, 06:02:36 PM »
Thank you Holden.

Offline Lizking

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2004, 06:04:34 PM »
That is like saying the civil rights movement was about bus seats.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2004, 06:08:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
That is like saying the civil rights movement was about bus seats.


That's like saying Hitler was just working within the laws of his country to protect Arian rights.

Offline Lizking

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« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2004, 06:14:39 PM »
Yes it is- all three are incorrect.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2004, 07:12:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Pre-emptive revision!
:)

Actually... you should read the declaration of secession by Alabaman E. S. Dargan.


I feel impelled, Mr. President, to vote for this Ordinance by an overruling necessity. Years ago I was convinced that the Southern States would be compelled either to separate from the North, by dissolving the Federal Government, or they would be compelled to abolish the institution of African Slavery.

This, in my judgment, was the only alternative; and I foresaw that the South would be compelled, at some day, to make her selection. The day is now come, and Alabama must make her selection, either to secede from the Union, and assume the position of a sovereign, independent State, or she must submit to a system of policy on the part of the Federal Government that, in a short time, will compel her to abolish African Slavery.

(my favorite part... if they are freed.. then what?)

 Mr. President, if pecuniary loss alone were involved in the abolition of slavery, I should hesitate long before I would give the vote I now intend to give. If the destruction of slavery entailed on us poverty alone, I could bear it, for I have seen poverty and felt its sting. But poverty, Mr. President, would be one of the least of the evils that would befall us from the abolition of African slavery. There are now in the slaveholding States over four millions of slaves; dissolve the relation of master and slave, and what, I ask, would become of that race? To remove them from amongst us is impossible. History gives us no account of the exodus of such a number of persons. We neither have a place to which to remove them, nor the means of such removal. They therefore must remain with us; and if the relation of master and slave be dissolved, and our slaves turned loose amongst us without restraint, they would either be destroyed by our own hands-- the hands to which they look, and look with confidence, for protection-- or we ourselves would become demoralized and degraded. The former result would take place, and we ourselves would become the executioners of our own slaves. To this extent would the policy of our Northern enemies drive us; and thus would we not only be reduced to poverty, but what is still worse, we should be driven to crime, to the commission of sin; and we must, therefore, this day elect between the Government formed by our fathers (the whole spirit of which has been perverted), and POVERTY AND CRIME! This being the alternative, I cannot hesitate for a moment what my duty is. I must separate from the Government of my fathers, the one under which I have lived, and under which I wished to die. But I must do my duty to my country and my fellow beings; and humanity, in my judgment, demands that Alabama should separate herself from the Government of the United States.



Here's what really happened.


Secessionist gov. and leg. called for elections to a convention Jan. 7, 1861.

Cooperationists opposed immediate secession.  In preliminary votes, cooperationist resolutions opposing immediate secession were narrowly down by a count of 53-46.  However on Jan. 11, following news that Mississippi and Florida had seceeded and that South Carolina had respected Federal efforts to relieve Ft. Sumptor, the convention adapted an ordinance of secession by a vote of 61-39.

The United States Senate refused to consider Crittenden's proposal, killing the plan to resolve the secession crisis.  Six Southern Democrats refused to vote.  The entire Republican party opposed consideration of the Crittendon Compromise, and was the major reason for the Compromise's failure.

A Peace Convention was called by Virginia on Jan. 19 to avert war by finding a compromise to restore the Union.  Seven seceeding states boycotted the Peace Convention.  Also Arkansas, California, Oregon, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnisota did not send representatives.

The Montgomery Convention convened on the same day as the Peace Convention.  Delegates were moderates and not ardent secessionists.  The delegates rapidly put together a provisional constitution, which was adopted four days later.

*http://www.tulane.edu/~latner/Dilemmas/DJan16.html

Offline StabbyTheIcePic

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2004, 07:29:20 PM »
The southern states where traitors and sherman had the right idea on how to treat traitors.

That article is lol btw.

Offline Leslie

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2004, 07:39:59 PM »
Yeah, I know it sucks.  Give me a break will ya?:D



Les

Offline Thrawn

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2004, 11:48:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scootter
dont be a tard, I was using sarcasm

I am quite aware he declared war on us, my post was a troll.


No, you're the tard for being a troll and mispresenting yourself.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2004, 08:08:55 AM »
nevermind.
Some arguements are just not worth getting into
« Last Edit: June 02, 2004, 08:52:58 AM by DREDIOCK »
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Toad

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Recalling a time when setbacks didn't deter us.
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2004, 09:19:49 AM »
Still disagree MT. If you want to resume the argument, go dig up the old thread and re-read it.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!