Author Topic: Modellers questions  (Read 1068 times)

Offline frank3

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Modellers questions
« on: June 02, 2004, 01:57:08 PM »
Im beginning with a 1:72 P-47D-30 Thunderbolt from Revell.
I have some questions before I start paint brushing it.:

- I've heard about modellers washing the frames with soap and water, why do they do that and should I do it too?

- What colour for the cockpit do you suggest?

- The model will go in alluminium colour, for the 'weathering' effect I heard something about mixing 1 part black (or other dark) paint with about 5 parts of water, put this on the plane and whipe it off, it's said that the darkish water will stay in the panel lines etc giving a nice panel effect.

Do I put it all over the aircraft? or only at some panels?

- At some parts the paint is weathered off abit (in real), I've heard many ways to replicate this. But what's the best way to do this? And where is it needed?

- the wing parts (upper and lower) are painted the same colour, do I need to glue them together before I paint in this case?


Have you got any more tips, ideas on how I can make this model as realistic possible?

Thanks alot!

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 02:09:09 PM »
Wash them to get rid of the release agent from the plastic molds.  It'll paint better.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline frank3

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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2004, 02:17:42 PM »
I see, the surfaces did feel abit...greasy, so the paint will stick better?


And my other questions?

Online Shane

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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2004, 02:20:44 PM »
1.  the rationale behind the washing (mild dish detergent) is to remove any residual factory oils from the manufacturing process.

2. cockpit colors are usually greenish for ww2 birds. in the case of the p-47, dark drab green is suggested, altho at 1/72 scale you can get away with various olive greens. be sure to add a drop or so of white to the mix - reason being to "scale" the color.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT027_Color_of_Colour/tnt027.htm

3. the weathering wash you're referring to.... yes it will, you can wipe off excess before it dries.  depending on the base paint, enamel or acrylic, what you use for the wash can have an  effect on the undercoat. for enamel base colors, using acrylics on top will not effect the enamel. for acrylics base, you might want to use artist pastels (like chalk, but snobbier) on top. use your judgement about the coverage. if this is your first model, don't worry about perfection.
http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/TnT_Archives/Washes-weathering.htm

4. additional weathering, i.e. paint chipping, and oil stains - various ways to get the paint chipping from using a silver paint pen, to base painting in a metal color and the chipping off the overcoat (for example an olive drab scheme) to using a brush and being very careful with applying the "chips".
http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/TnT_Archives/Chipped_Paint.htm


5.  i'd recommend you put the wings together before painting, as if you painted first, some excess glue may spoil the paint, not to mention you may find a hairline seam that you'd want to fill, requiring sanding and possibly putty to cover the seam.


here are some links to some helpful sites:

 http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/  the tools and tips section will be very insightful, the above links are from that section.

http://www.hyperscale.com/

http://www.swannysmodels.com/index.html

http://hem.bredband.net/thomaskolb/art/models/introduction_e.htm

welcome to the hobby... have fun.
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Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2004, 02:28:04 PM »
Althought washing your model is good practice, in all my years of modeling I've never washed a single model before painting it unless It had lots of putty or sanding involved. Best advice for anyone starting out with plastic models, built it without any weathering (not easy). Focus on making a clean perfect pristine model kit which is a skill in itself. If you decide to, you can always weather it at a later time.

edit: with testors paint I never had any probs however, with some of these new acrylic water based paints maybe the oil on the plastic becomes a problem. Little dishwashing soap and lotsa warm water in the kitchen sink. Dip the model in and light rinse and that should do it. Air dry with a blow dry and cotton cloth.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2004, 02:31:50 PM by MrCoffee »

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2004, 02:53:34 PM »
Here is a fun site for you,

http://modelingmadness.com/kitindex/kitindexmain.htm



and you could join us fellow modelers here

http://www.ipmsusa.org/


Dive in, it's a great way to unwind

Offline gofaster

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Re: Modellers questions
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2004, 02:59:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
Im beginning with a 1:72 P-47D-30 Thunderbolt from Revell.
I have some questions before I start paint brushing it.:

- I've heard about modellers washing the frames with soap and water, why do they do that and should I do it too?


Its a good idea, but not really necessary.  Revell usually does a good job of making clean kits, but an ounce of prevention will save you a pound of frustration later on.  Sometimes, if there is oil on the plastic, the paint will bubble around it and leave an island of oil in the finish.
Quote

- What colour for the cockpit do you suggest?
Zinc Chromate Green

Quote

- The model will go in alluminium colour, for the 'weathering' effect I heard something about mixing 1 part black (or other dark) paint with about 5 parts of water, put this on the plane and whipe it off, it's said that the darkish water will stay in the panel lines etc giving a nice panel effect. Do I put it all over the aircraft? or only at some panels?

For your first kit, I would suggest keeping the weathering fairly simple - maybe some grease around the wheels, some smoke around the guns and exhaust.  I use some diluted-down acrylic flat black.  The thin mixture will settle in the cracks and crevices so that those parts are darker, and will leave a 'shadow' on the upper parts.
Quote

- At some parts the paint is weathered off abit (in real), I've heard many ways to replicate this. But what's the best way to do this? And where is it needed?

If the airplane is in its natural metal finish, there won't be any paint to weather off.  But, if you want to try and weather the propeller blades, I would suggest spraying them in silver, then using small pieces of masking tape where you want the chips to be, then spraying the blades in flat black.  When the blades are dry, peel off the tape.  Obviously, you want to do this before you glue the blade onto the airplane, or you'll end up with a big mess.

Quote

- the wing parts (upper and lower) are painted the same colour, do I need to glue them together before I paint in this case?

Its a good idea to glue the wings together, the fuselage together, and the wings to the fuselage before you paint the airplane.  The reason for this is two-fold: (1) paint prevents glue from getting a good bond on the plastic, and (2) those are the seams that most often need to be sanded after the glue dries.  I usually wait a day or two after glueing the fuselage and wings together before I sand off the seam, just to give the glue time to get good and hard.  You'll want to use Fine grade (220) at least, maybe even UltraFine, too.

DON'T ADD ANY CLEAR PARTS UNTIL YOU'RE ALMOST DONE!

After you spray the plane, look for obvious seams, holes, or errors.  Be gentle when handling the metal finish, as your fingers will rub off the silver paint and/or leave oil on the surface.  You want to handle the airplane along the edges of the wings instead of the top and bottom.

Once you've done any sanding or filling and have sprayed the plane again, let it dry overnight to cure.  

Now, this is purely optional, but I like to spray the whole thing with a thin layer of Testor's GlossCote, just to seal the metal finish and protect it while handling the airplane and adding the gear, doors, bombs, drop tanks, etc., painting the squadron markings, adding weathering, and whatnot.  One trick for the wheels is to paint the base coat a dark grey or brown, then wash it in black.  The black will settle in the treads and leave the upper surface looking like old rubber.

Decal time.  Either spray the whole plane with a coat of GlossCote, or use Micro Gloss where the decals will go.  This will prevent "ghosting" - a tendency for a film to be obvious around the decals.  Let this dry overnight.

Add decals, let them dry for at least a couple of hours (just to be safe) then spray with Testor's DullCote or MicroFlat to seal the decals and keep them from rubbing off.

Lastly, glue the cockpit onto the plane using Testor's Window Cement.  This is glue that is especially designed for glueing clear plastic together.  You can also use it to make small windows, lenses, etc. and to fill in gaps between the fuselage and the canopy.

Quote

Have you got any more tips, ideas on how I can make this model as realistic possible?


Make a diorama base for it.  Its easy.  I use those 1:18 scale car display cases (about $10 at Wal-Mart), the ones with the black bottom and clear plastic cover.  Of course, that's contingent on the plane being able to fit inside the cover.

Generally, you want to find a base that won't flex.  Thick plywood is a good choice.  Some people even use cheap wooden picture frames (remove the glass).  You'll want some Elmer's white glue, a bag of modeler's grass ($4 at most hobby shops) and/or some sand (I use sand from my front yard, filtered through a bug screen to remove leaves and rocks, and stored in a zip-loc bag).  I also use twigs from my yard to represent fallen logs and such.

First, figure out how you want the plane to sit in the frame and where you want the dirt to go and the grass to go.  Now that you have a basic idea, pour some white glue where you want the dirt to go, add your logs (if any), then sprinkle the sand into the glue.  I put enough dirt on the top layer so that the dirt surface looks dry, then I gently push down on the surface so that the dirt gets embedded into the glue.  The glue will dry clear, so don't worry about it being obvious.  When its dry, lightly tap the loose sand off (I recycle my sand by tapping it off into a plastic take-home tray from Maggiano's Italian restaurant, then pouring it back into the zip-loc bag).  Be careful not to tap your log(s) loose!

Now to add the grass.  You can either wait for the dirt to dry or you can go ahead and put the grass on top, its up to you, but just make sure you don't man-handle the base around too much or you'll end up with a gooey mess.  I prefer to wait for the sand part to dry before I add grass.

Once the dirt is dry, lay out some lines of glue where you want the grass to be.  I use a small brush to sort of work the glue into the surface of the dirt (white glue cleans with water, so don't worry about ruining the brush).  Then I sprinkle on the grass, tap off the loose grass into the take-home tray, and let it dry overnight.

Next day, I spray the diorama base with a dull clear coat.  Testor's DullCote works well, or you can just use a spray can of "Clear" from Home Depot or Lowe's or whatnot.  This is to seal the grass and dirt so that it doesn't end up all over your bedroom floor.

Lastly, add the airplane.  If you're patient, you can use white glue to hold it in place, or you can be lazy and use marine silicone epoxy (my choice), or you can just let it sit on the diorama base without any glue (another one of my choices - let's me use the same base with different airplanes when taking pictures).

Now that you have all of your supplies and have finished your first kit, its time for you to build the next one!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2004, 03:06:38 PM by gofaster »

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2004, 03:12:30 PM »
Ok if you want to try weathering your model. I would recommend getting some water color tubes of paint. Winsor Newton, Grumbacher, Da Vinci, etc... You can put some on a qtip and rub it onto your model with your finger. Use a qtip or toothpick to apply it to the surface and rub it in with your finger. You can do basic weathering with this on small scale models for exhaust smoke, panel lines, etc...



good base colors are...
burnt Sienna, raw umber, black, any dark greys

for mixing
titanium white (to lighten), Cadmium Red (red mix), etc...

Easy way to do weathering, hard to mess up. You'll need an acrylic or laquor clear coat to seal it. Floor wax should be ok also. If you dont airbrush it clear, it will rub off when touched or run if you brush the clear coat on.

For silver, I recommend a dark grey and burnt sienna for the panel lines.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2004, 03:39:51 PM by MrCoffee »

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2004, 11:30:30 PM »
I'm just surprised that Nuke hasn't chimed in here. He does some amazing things with models.
sand

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2004, 11:48:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
I'm just surprised that Nuke hasn't chimed in here. He does some amazing things with models.


Thanks Sandman......I appreciate your compliments very much sir.

The posts from the other modelers seemed to answer his questions very well

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2004, 11:52:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Thanks Sandman......I appreciate your compliments very much sir.


Just softening you up for an F-14 model... ;)
sand

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2004, 12:07:13 AM »
you can email me, in my profile.

Online Shane

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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2004, 12:14:16 AM »
gaaaahhh!!  jet phag!! kill it before it breeds!



:p
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2004, 12:16:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
gaaaahhh!!  jet phag!! kill it before it breeds!



:p


Just that one... I was an intercept controller in an earlier life. ;)
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2004, 12:17:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
you can email me, in my profile.



Oh ****! I was kidding... It's too much to ask.
sand