Author Topic: Steadfast Bush*? (Read 829 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 07, 2004, 08:41:49 AM »

I agree with you that virginia has it right.

the excuse fo rriders is that there is too much for our poor overworked politicians and lawmakers to do... that is a crock of course since the riders slow the process immensly... plus... the less they do... the better for all of us.

lazs

storch · « **Reply #16 on:** June 07, 2004, 09:20:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Democrats do not control any aspect of the government right now. If the republicans really wanted to remove it they could.

Boy are you thick! If that were true the 9th district court would be much more conservative as I type.

mosgood · « **Reply #17 on:** June 07, 2004, 10:10:31 AM »

Laz,

So if Kerry wasn't for more gun control, he would be ok?

Not putting words in your mouth, just wondering if that is your only issue with him.

TheDudeDVant · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2004, 12:57:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Democrats do not control any aspect of the government right now. If the republicans really wanted to remove it they could.

So simple and logical I had not thought of it.. Seems pretty much right though..

Will be interesting too see what Bush does in September w/ the assult weapon ban.. Will pretty much be put up or shut-up...

kappa

lazs2 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2004, 01:02:00 PM »

mosgood and kappa.... No, even if kerry were not for gun control he would not be allright as you say.

as a democrat he would appoint liberal judges and not veto liberal bills.

kappa... no.. it is not at all that simple. If riders are attached to a bill that are philisophicaly 180 degrees from the theme of the bill, how can you vote for it?

I think you will find that most republicans are in favor of removing the so called assault rifle bill and most democrats are not.

lazs

TheDudeDVant · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2004, 01:05:08 PM »

Quote

kappa... no.. it is not at all that simple. If riders are attached to a bill that are philisophicaly 180 degrees from the theme of the bill, how can you vote for it?

If you are to understand that point you made, how could you ever call kerry a flip-flopper? Maybe you have not called him that? If not, you should defend against it..

Quote

I think you will find that most republicans are in favor of removing the so called assault rifle bill and most democrats are not.

I could be wrong but doesnt the bill 'expire' in september? They will have to vote to renew it? If nothing is done the law goes away??

kappa

lazs2 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2004, 01:12:18 PM »

kappa... if someone puts forth a bill say that says that gun manufactures can't be sued for making a well made product but then attaches a rider on it that renews the assault weapon bill.... How would I vote?

lazs

TheDudeDVant · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2004, 01:18:30 PM »

for it??

no wait..

Against it!!!

lol im not sure lazs.. I didnt mean to question your beliefs.. I suppose I was changing the subject... I meant only to agree with you about riders on bills and how they could change your original outlook on a bill.. Doesn't this happen with bills all the time? Was just commenting on the willingness of some to agree with the Kerry flip-flop label.. nothing more.. I suppose Virgina has the striaght arrow with their 'no riders'...

Am I right thought about he weapons ban will expire in September forcing a renewal of the bill or the bill goes away??

kappa

lazs2 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 07, 2004, 01:34:58 PM »

I will check but I have seen several pro firearms rights bills that have had the renewal of the assualt weapons restriction on em.

lazs

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #24 on:** June 07, 2004, 01:47:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs
you obviously don't understand how it works when the numbers are close. riders are put on bills... the riders in this case allowed for the suing of gun manufacturers for producing excellent products.. so to remove the ban you would also have to vote to sell the manufacturers down the river... most republicans couldn't do that and withdrew support.

Adding riders to bills should be illegal and each bill should cover only one item.

Quote

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
The numbers are not close.

108th congress:

Senate: R-51, D-48, I-1

House: R-229, D-205, I-1

A vote along party lines can't get a whole lot closer. The numbers are indeed close.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2004, 02:00:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
kappa... if someone puts forth a bill say that says that gun manufactures can't be sued for making a well made product but then attaches a rider on it that renews the assault weapon bill.... How would I vote?

lazs

If you didn't read the fine print or if an addendum were added after the fact, you might change your mind...and be accused of flip flopping...but hey, that's just my opinion.

storch · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2004, 02:02:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
If you didn't read the fine print or if an addendum were added after the fact, you might change your mind...and be accused of flip flopping...but hey, that's just my opinion.

They don't read the bills, neither side does. none of them!! It's a dodge to get out of working and to have power and prestige.

lazs2 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 07, 2004, 02:30:46 PM »

I haven't accused kerry of flip flopping on bills (or anything else for that matter).. he has changed his position on say his vietnam stance but he is not flip flopping... people can change... what bothers me is that he is being cowardly and dishonest about it.

lazs

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 07, 2004, 02:35:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
They don't read the bills, neither side does. none of them!! It's a dodge to get out of working and to have power and prestige.

Yup. My dad was in politics and decided not to run for re-election when he saw all the dodginess going on. had he been less respectable my family would probably be filthy (pun intended) rich by now...kudos to him for having some morals...

sadly, politics is more about personal agendas and glory seeking than looking out for common people. I really doubt anyone married to a ketchup exec, or a guy who hasnt worked a day in his life can really understand life as we do.