Author Topic: FM Changes  (Read 1645 times)

Offline SlapShot

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FM Changes
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2004, 09:37:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
Early in beta I was flying 38 a lot, seldom fly it at all now.  It just seemed like they changed the FM again somewhere along the line.  Maybe perception, maybe reality - might be a "spin-off" of taming the stalling stuff of all the planes.  Ponies rule now, I have gone to the dark side.


Same here Zanth. Loved the P-38 in earlier Beta.

The flight characteristics between the AH I P-38 and the AH II P-38 are incredibly different than any other AH I to AH II plane flight characteristics.

In most instances, the new FM of AH II has made the plane perform better. The P-51 has been mentioned, but the plane that I have noticed an incredible improvement is the F6-F. It is nice in AH I, but a thing of beauty in AH II.

I am not an expert, but my gut tells me that something is wrong with the P-38.
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Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2004, 09:59:15 AM »
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I am not an expert, but my gut tells me that something is wrong with the P-38.


Your gut is right :(
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Offline Paxil

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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2004, 10:43:04 AM »
I agree about the F6F, Mathman will be a God now.

Offline jaxxo

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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2004, 11:15:59 AM »
Try this move...get a 190 in a scissors...when approaching stall speed, staighten out and go nose up slightly, start rolling hard.....the plane will roll about 5 times faster than normal lol.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2004, 11:30:00 AM »
I haven't flown the P-38 as often in either AH I or AH II nearly as extensively as some of you, so I can't comment on the differences in flight models between the two versions.  From my limited flying of the Lightning I have come to the conclusion that the flight model appears to be historically correct.  P-38 attributes evident in Aces High are:

high top speed
excellent high-speed climb
tremendous zoom climb capability
zero-convergence firepower
good maneuverability free of torque influence
excellent range and endurance
above average low-level maneuverability

With such a large number of flexible characteristics I don't believe it is accurate to describe the new flight model as being "castrated."  

Some of the disappointment with the Lightning's flight model may come from unrealistic expectations.  While the P-38L had boosted ailerons and Fowler flaps to enhance maneuverability it was still foolhardy for American pilots to enter low-speed, low-level dogfights with Japanese fighters.  Conversely, it seems that this model could out-maneuver Luftwaffe fighters, although there are isolated voices to contest this (Adolf Galland).  Whether this was due to the greater level of experience and training of American pilots as compared to the late-war Luftwaffe pilots is a matter of some debate.

The tightest turning American fighter was the FM-2.  Using it as a benchmark with a value of 100, as Francis Dean did in America's Hundred Thousand, America's main fighter types of WWII are ranked thusly in turn capability sans flaps:

FM-2               100
P-63               124
P-61               133
F6F-5              137
P-51D             179
P-38L              205
P-47D             206
F4U-1D           212

While the Fowler flap greatly enhanced the P-38L's maneuverability the difference in turning ability that this flap had to compensate for was considerable.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2004, 12:31:05 PM »
Shuckins ... you are the only one that has used the word "castrated" in this thread. I think there is something wrong which doesn't imply that it is "castrated".

high top speed
excellent high-speed climb
tremendous zoom climb capability
zero-convergence firepower
good maneuverability free of torque influence
excellent range and endurance

No argument with the above ...

above average low-level maneuverability

This is wherer I have a problem ... currently it has below average low-level maneuverability in my experiences flying it.

Again, once it was introduced to Beta and the roll rate bug was fixed, it was MUCH more stable than it is now.
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2004, 01:26:30 PM »
Slapshot,

Morph implied that the P-38 had had its nutz removed...which is the same thing.

While flying in AH II I have heard others commenting about the new flight model offering greater maneuverability for the P-38 at low-level.

As I said, I don't fly the Lighting as much as some others do, so I can't offer a definitive judgement...just personal observations from my admittedly limited experience with it.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2004, 01:52:11 PM »
Morph implied that the P-38 had had its nutz removed...which is the same thing.

Missed that ... yup that is ... ouch ... castration ... :D

Well I have put in some serious hours in the P-38 within the last 2 tours in AH I and have flown the early version of the P-38 in AH II, and the P-38 at this point in time, just doesn't feel right.

Just my personal experiences.
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Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2004, 02:51:52 PM »
It has been nuterd.

In a turn fight it just falls on its face.

I've been in some serious turn fights in AH1 in the 38. Not once did it fail to pull out or keep from stalling out and splattering on the ground as it has in AH2.

Why try and fix something that wasn't broke in AH1?

I give up... I'll just fly the La7s and Niks like everyone else...
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Offline save

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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2004, 03:15:18 AM »
they just might want to implement a new better more real-life FM for your favourite aircraft.

Im sorry to hear new FM was de-balled :/
Im still looking for as accurate behaviour sim there is - not just game-made implications
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Offline Manedew

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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2004, 05:15:39 AM »
here a hint noobs ..  You don't need to be at 100% thorttle every second ........  :D

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2004, 06:26:47 AM »
Well if AHT says so;

Quote

FM-2 100
P-63 124
P-61 133
F6F-5 137
P-51D 179
P-38L 205
P-47D 206
F4U-1D 212


 ...  maybe the P-38L wasn't supposed to turn and mash at low speeds like it used to in AH1 in the first place.. who knows? Looks like sustained turns are about as effective as a P-47. Maybe the new FM implies that you shouldn't start a turn fight in the first place with a plane that turns like a P-47..??

 *shrugs*

Offline jaxxo

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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2004, 08:23:44 AM »
"Also you have way too much aileron authority during a stall. If you pull your stick gently fully aft, the plane will enter a stall in which you maintain roll control, and you can remain in this condition endlesly and even land that way, I've done a similar manouver in a sailplane, but I don't think a fighter plane flies that way.."

I was in a pony about 7k....Merged with La5 last night, I came in higher diving under him... did a high immelman...I beat him to the top and came over on him....he started to run and then he started to attempt an over the top move..I followed him up closing fast....at 600 started firing...he chops throttle and puts plane in rolling stall move flopping around like a fish..I over shoot of course but when I look back hes still flopping to the earth... I reverse on him looking for the killshot only to find he has recovered and gained enough e already to zoom up to me for a headon shot and 1 pings my pilot....boom Im dead. I was pretty bent about it.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2004, 09:50:49 AM »
Exactly jaxxo ... this move will replace the "engine off" move. Extremely gamey and alot of people are taking advantage of it.
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Offline Delirium

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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2004, 04:46:23 PM »
I agree with Slap's and Morph's assessment of the P38 in AH2, I'm very disgusted with it, the thing has more torque than a SpitV now.

I've said alot on the beta reports about it but no luck yet... I'm close to not renewing my account when AH2 goes live. There is other reasons, but seeing my P38 get castrated is the icing on the cake.
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