FM Changes

[pellik]

I've noticed a lot of changes in the flight model while making the switch to AH2. Some of which are obvious and anticipated as they have been listed as key features for some time. Others are subtle and new, and cause me much grief as I find I'm unable to predict what planes can do. I'd like to get a thread going to list and discuss what changes people percieve, to help make sense of the switch to AH2.

The change that has been causing me the most grief the last few days is in reguards to the nose down performance of the american fighters. Basically, they seem to have a much harder time burning energy nose down, which is devestating to a group of fighters that practically made their living on nose-low low turn radii. If you want to get a feel for what I'm talking about compare low alt split-s performance in the FM2, or P38 with flaps extended, in AH1 to AH2. In AH1 both of these planes used to be able to make a hard turn that spits, with their excellent E retention, couldn't follow. Now I find that they have some of the worst nose down turn radii in the game, and as a result I auger frequently. This is only in reguards to a true split-s, not low yo-yos. I'd have thought that with all the extra lift the 38 seems to have gotten in AH2 it would be able to convert its nose down accelleration into turn even faster, thus reducing its radius. This change also dramatically hampers trying to press an altitude advantage in american fighters, as they have a much harder time getting an angle if they start with a little extra alt. Very bad for vertical BnZers. Anyone else notice these changes?

I know gunnery is different. Has anyone figured out all the changes to it in the new system? I could really use some pointers in how to adjest my leading for high angle shots.

I've started to notice some changes in stall characteristics of the slower single engine planes. I watched a f6f go up with my 38 into the vertical and keep the thing pointed up all the way until ~50mph. Shouldn't the torque have thrown his nose down pretty quick once he lost enough speed to get any milage out of his rudder? At least he should have had a hard time getting out of the ensuing stall. As it is he got his nose up just as quick as my 38, which should have hold all the cards with neutral torque. My suspicion is that combat trim was just working too well for the guy, perfectly countering the changes in flight controls that would normally have thrown him out of plane much quicker.

These are the changes I've noticed most. I'd like to hear about other changes as well, I'm not just here to gripe.

-pellik

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by pellik
I know gunnery is different. Has anyone figured out all the changes to it in the new system? I could really use some pointers in how to adjest my leading for high angle shots.

As far as I know, nothing has changed in the actual ballistics model.  As such, your lead for high angle shots should remain exactly the same as before.  HTC did change two things that might make timing or aiming such shots a bit more difficult however.  First, icons now appear below enemy planes rather than above.  Many folks used the icon to time shots where the enemy was actually below their noses and out of the line of sight; the new system removes that advantage.  Second, you no longer see hit sprites below your nose.  Those shots still hit with the same kind of lead as before, but you won't have the visual reference telling you that you fired accurately unless you actually see the enemy.

So keep firing as you always did, but don't count on the same sorts of visual or timing clues that you once enjoyed.  After a brief adjustment period, you'll find that the new changes don't really affect your aim much at all.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[GtoRA2]

I am not a good enough stick to comment, not do I have enough flight time!

I just wanted to throw you another , the fight low with me in a Spit 9 and you in the 38 we had the other day was a stand out moment for me for fun!


Man watching you fly that 38 was like seeing art in motion!

[Sikboy]

WRT gunnery, we had a good thread going in the AHIII forum:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117471

As far as the flight model changes, the only thing I've noticed is an increased tendancy to depart into a spin at the top of my loops (sort of the opposite of what the F6Fs did), and a greater chance of a stall/spin while ****ting myself in low alt/high speed maneuvers.

-Sik

[Red Tail 444]

Planes seem to have more inertia now, and heavier planes tend to slide through the Split-S much more than before...IMO

[Zanth]

Early beta had much much more torque, even takeoffs were quite challenging - F4U would kill you.  Planes like the 38 had a huge clear advange even against a Zeek.  May have been "more real" but I don't know if they'd been able to sell AH that way (well except to 38 pilots..

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Zanth
Early beta had much much more torque, even takeoffs were quite challenging - F4U would kill you.  Planes like the 38 had a huge clear advange even against a Zeek.  May have been "more real" but I don't know if they'd been able to sell AH that way (well except to 38 pilots..

Test of pilot skill and mettle, in the CT our CQ's were contingent on To and landings with F4U full loadouts....not as challenging anymore, but far fewer ditches ....

[Gixer]

"Second, you no longer see hit sprites below your nose"

Is that a planned feature or a flaw?



...-Gixer

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Gixer
Is that a planned feature or a flaw?

That's planned.  It's really more of a bug fix than a new feature.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Planes seem to have more inertia now, and heavier planes tend to slide through the Split-S much more than before...IMO

I agree with the weight/inertia thing, but it works both ways. Try the P47D-40 now, it has an incredible zoom climb in AH2. I notice better zoom climbs with F6f as well, great for roping light turners like spits and nikis.

Zazen

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Zanth
Early beta had much much more torque, even takeoffs were quite challenging - F4U would kill you.  Planes like the 38 had a huge clear advange even against a Zeek.  May have been "more real" but I don't know if they'd been able to sell AH that way (well except to 38 pilots..

Any advantage the 38 had is long gone now. It is IMHO one of the biggest hunks of junk in the game now. The 51 was given a healthy dose of steroids and the 38 has had its nuts removed. Ahh well...

[mora]

Originally posted by pellik
I've started to notice some changes in stall characteristics of the slower single engine planes. I watched a f6f go up with my 38 into the vertical and keep the thing pointed up all the way until ~50mph. Shouldn't the torque have thrown his nose down pretty quick once he lost enough speed to get any milage out of his rudder? At least he should have had a hard time getting out of the ensuing stall. As it is he got his nose up just as quick as my 38, which should have hold all the cards with neutral torque. My suspicion is that combat trim was just working too well for the guy, perfectly countering the changes in flight controls that would normally have thrown him out of plane much quicker.

Yep, the stall is the weakest point of AH2 FM. You can't get a plane into a spin, instead it starts to tumble it's way down. Also you have way too much aileron authority during a stall. If you pull your stick gently fully aft, the plane will enter a stall in which you maintain roll control, and you can remain in this condition endlesly and even land that way, I've done a similar manouver in a sailplane, but I don't think a fighter plane flies that way..

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by mora
Yep, the stall is the weakest point of AH2 FM. You can't get a plane into a spin, instead it starts to tumble it's way down. Also you have way too much aileron authority during a stall. If you pull your stick gently fully aft, the plane will enter a stall in which you maintain roll control, and you can remain in this condition endlesly and even land that way, I've done a similar manouver in a sailplane, but I don't think a fighter plane flies that way..

Yup, ManeTMP did that the other day to me in his Tempest vs. my F6F. It just didn't look natural, I have a hard time believing planes could actually do this. Reminded me alot of the spin fighting era in AWFR, when you could enter a spin, which killed your speed, swing around 180 degrees and pull right out while accelerating thru your new vector.

Zazen

[Zanth]

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Any advantage the 38 had is long gone now. It is IMHO one of the biggest hunks of junk in the game now. The 51 was given a healthy dose of steroids and the 38 has had its nuts removed. Ahh well...

Early in beta I was flying 38 a lot, seldom fly it at all now.  It just seemed like they changed the FM again somewhere along the line.  Maybe perception, maybe reality - might be a "spin-off" of taming the stalling stuff of all the planes.  Ponies rule now, I have gone to the dark side.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, ManeTMP did that the other day to me in his Tempest vs. my F6F. It just didn't look natural, I have a hard time believing planes could actually do this. Reminded me alot of the spin fighting era in AWFR, when you could enter a spin, which killed your speed, swing around 180 degrees and pull right out while accelerating thru your new vector.

Zazen

Yup .. I see it all the time now ... its the lastest "gamey" move.

Many times I have been on someone's 6 (long or short) and they put the plane into that flippy stall as a defensive move. You overshoot very easily when it happens, and soon after the overshoot, they straighten right out.