what's up with the p38??

[Pooh21]

I get what seems to me to be torque effect at low speeds. P-38 being what I fly mostly now, it seems to be less forgiving now.

[Eagler]

got 5 on sortie and 7 the next yesterday....

don't know if it is my ability or the other pilots inabilities...

I do find it easier to score hits than with the 109s, all them guns in the nose making the difference??

[Kweassa]

Posted this on the General Discussions equivalent of this thread but..

 ..according to the guys, Francis Dean's AHT compares the sustained turn characteristics of US fighters in this order, with the smaller number indicating a better turner;

    FM-2 100
    P-63 124
    P-61 133
    F6F-5 137
    P-51D 179
    P-38L 205
    P-47D 206
    F4U-1D 212

 If AHT can be considered a reliable source, looks like sustained turns are about as effective as a P-47D with a P-38L.

 Maybe the new FM implies that you shouldn't start a turn fight in the first place with a plane that turns like a P-47. It could be that the AH1 P-38L was actually overmodelled than it is supposed to be at low speed scissors/turn fighting.

 In AH2, it is still one of the easiest planes to smoothly transcend into low speeds by use of flaps and rudder. In fact, all of the US planes with effective flap use, is at an advantage when entering into that speed regime, compared to other planes which has to drop speed under 200 and then start deploying flaps.

 Maybe it's just after the low-speed status is hit, the P-38 isn't as easy as it used to be in handling? It could be only a perceptual disadvantage which in the case of other planes, suffers even more harshly than the P-38. I know the 109 does handle more bitc*y whenever I have to get it to deplot flaps..

[BUG_EAF322]

I know there guys have who have "accurate" sources that tells it climbs and turns better than the p51.

and so way better than a p47.

i had a 7 kill sorty yesterday but that says nothin.

[Kweassa]

Well if the logic's so laid out, I'm sure HTC will look into it and change it to a better way.

[Eagler]

I think AH1 was uber whereas Ah2 is closer to real, planes should fall out of the sky when lift is removed from its wings..

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Posted this on the General Discussions equivalent of this thread but..

 ..according to the guys, Francis Dean's AHT compares the sustained turn characteristics of US fighters in this order, with the smaller number indicating a better turner;

    FM-2 100
    P-63 124
    P-61 133
    F6F-5 137
    P-51D 179
    P-38L 205
    P-47D 206
    F4U-1D 212

 If AHT can be considered a reliable source, looks like sustained turns are about as effective as a P-47D with a P-38L.

 Maybe the new FM implies that you shouldn't start a turn fight in the first place with a plane that turns like a P-47. It could be that the AH1 P-38L was actually overmodelled than it is supposed to be at low speed scissors/turn fighting.

 In AH2, it is still one of the easiest planes to smoothly transcend into low speeds by use of flaps and rudder. In fact, all of the US planes with effective flap use, is at an advantage when entering into that speed regime, compared to other planes which has to drop speed under 200 and then start deploying flaps.

 Maybe it's just after the low-speed status is hit, the P-38 isn't as easy as it used to be in handling? It could be only a perceptual disadvantage which in the case of other planes, suffers even more harshly than the P-38. I know the 109 does handle more bitc*y whenever I have to get it to deplot flaps..

Nice numbers and stats but they don't tell us anything about the dogfighting or stall fighting capabilities of the P-38 ... just how well they can sustain a constant turn.

Thats whats wrong with the P-38. I know damn well that I cannot sustain a "turn-fight" with alot of those planes, and I don't. I usually take them into the vertical and force them to stall fight. That is where I beat them.

HT was in the arena yesterday flying the P-38 and he said that they were checking it out. I hope they find something. If they don't, then I will live with it.

[TequilaChaser]

Although I haven't flown it ALOT in AH2, I am with Wilbus and Ack-Ack,  I do find that if I am in a nose down turn with more than 1 notch of flaps out it turns/spins too easily but after flying for nearly a week in AH2 only, I took a trip back to AH1 and thought I had went back in time to the AW RR arena.  I am pleased with most all planes including the 38.  We are on new ground here and I welcome it, AH2 is what AH1 should have been as for being close to the Full Realism of flight aspect.

The guys that have flown the 38 alot will come around and will able to knife fight and stuff as they did before. It is just a new part to the learning curve.

1 thing Zazen pointed out though, is  I have noticed the spin fighter syndrom already and this bites! ummm.....it bites them in the 6 if they try it!!! yeah that's what I meant.......

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Not only that, using Combat Trim in the P-38 pretty much renders the dive flaps useless as the Combat Trim trims to compensate for the nose up pitch the dive flaps give the P-38.

Hiya akak

I've flown the P38 a bit - often as jabo - but not enough to get good in it or anything. On those jabo runs preparing to bomb or rocket strafe a VH, I would always select dive flaps, but found they made little difference. So when I read your post this morning, I tried an offline test. I took off in a P38, and levelled out - probably at about 5K. The IAS and TAS were each a little either side of 350mph. Combat trim was OFF and I manually trimmed for level flight. Then, I hit Shift+C to select dive flaps. The result? Nothing. The pitch/attitude did not change one iota, and neither did the speed. Can you explain please?

[Kweassa]

Nice numbers and stats but they don't tell us anything about the dogfighting or stall fighting capabilities of the P-38 ... just how well they can sustain a constant turn.

 True, but it does give a place to start in thinking. Obviously from what the AHT points out, the P-38L definately doesn't seem to be TnB material, or even a material that would risk close-quarters scissoring or etc. easily.

 

Thats whats wrong with the P-38. I know damn well that I cannot sustain a "turn-fight" with alot of those planes, and I don't. I usually take them into the vertical and force them to stall fight. That is where I beat them.

 That's what I thought, too. Except in the beta, everyone usually seems to be complaining on channel one, about that they can't take out a La-7 or a Yak-9 or etc etc. like they used to in AH1. Well, a lot of things are different than it used to be for a lot of other planes, too.

 At any rate if HTC is looking into it, then it's a good sign. Surely they'll make it better if its indeed porked.

[Ecliptik]

I've flown the P38 a bit - often as jabo - but not enough to get good in it or anything. On those jabo runs preparing to bomb or rocket strafe a VH, I would always select dive flaps, but found they made little difference. So when I read your post this morning, I tried an offline test. I took off in a P38, and levelled out - probably at about 5K. The IAS and TAS were each a little either side of 350mph. Combat trim was OFF and I manually trimmed for level flight. Then, I hit Shift+C to select dive flaps. The result? Nothing. The pitch/attitude did not change one iota, and neither did the speed. Can you explain please?

I've flown the 38 a long time, and as far as I know the dive flaps have never affected the pitch of the aircraft.  They simply serve to extend the speed before you lock up in compression by 10-20 mph.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by beet1e
Hiya akak

I've flown the P38 a bit - often as jabo - but not enough to get good in it or anything. On those jabo runs preparing to bomb or rocket strafe a VH, I would always select dive flaps, but found they made little difference. So when I read your post this morning, I tried an offline test. I took off in a P38, and levelled out - probably at about 5K. The IAS and TAS were each a little either side of 350mph. Combat trim was OFF and I manually trimmed for level flight. Then, I hit Shift+C to select dive flaps. The result? Nothing. The pitch/attitude did not change one iota, and neither did the speed. Can you explain please?

trim your plane to approximate neutral, don't use the auto-level do it for you.  Keep your plane trimmed in that position and start your dive with the dive flaps already engaged.  Once you start going past the 350mph mark the nose will want to start pitching up.  YMMV.



ack-ack

[Mathman]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Once you start going past the 350mph mark the nose will want to start pitching up.  YMMV.

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't that what its supposed to do?  Obviously, I am not a 38 disciple, but it was my understanding that the dive flaps were there to assist with the pullout.  Probably misunderstanding on my part.

[Shuckins]

You're dead on Math.   The dive brakes were added to combat tuck-under caused by compressibility.  Once engaged the nose of the P-38 would begin to rise.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Mathman
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't that what its supposed to do?  Obviously, I am not a 38 disciple, but it was my understanding that the dive flaps were there to assist with the pullout.  Probably misunderstanding on my part.

It's exactly what it's supposed to do and was just trying to explain how to get them to work properly for those that say they can't get the dive flaps to do anything.  I've noticed that a lot that say the dive flaps don't work in the P-38 have either been using combat trim or don't have the P-38 trimmed properly.


ack-ack